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Author Topic: About the AII red  (Read 9943 times)
xan
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« on: November 18, 2011, 02:51:29 PM »

Hi,
I have the akan AII red paint and I find it very bautyfull.
I commanded tu a friend who does decals red star on this colour...
I saw this topic about the yak-1 modelvits and accurate miniature and the page 9 they talk about the red....
http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_29667_start_160.html
in page 9, this picture appears:



what is the A-13 colour? when was it applied?
Does it mean that there where different red in the same time?
a red in the fabric and another in the battle field?

Xan
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2011, 04:28:48 PM »

Hi Xan,
AII red is nitro paint for mixed construction planes, can be utilized both on fabric, wood and primed metal.
A-13 is oil paint for metal only. It can be utilized on metal parts, both inside and outside.
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/color-table.html

Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2011, 07:08:12 PM »

Hi Xan,
to keep it simple:

-  AII Red was used for fabric
-  A-13 for metal


Before the war, metal parts on mixed construction planes were painted with oil paints, fabric with nitro paints.  During the war, to speed-up the production, mixed construction planes were primed with ALG-1 or ALG-5 primers, primer was dried with hot air heaters, and then the planes were painted with nitro paints.

note following two facts:
1.  both AII Red and A-13 are glossy
2.  There was no flat red AMT paint
.  

This means that all GPW planes camouflaged in flat AMT (and A-XXm) paints had their red stars painted with glossy AII Red (or A-13)!  This is visible on the preserved Lagg-3 fuselage fragment in Finland



even after 60 years green and black are flat (matt) while red is glossy.

Cheers,
KL    
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 07:26:38 PM by KL » Logged
xan
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« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2011, 08:42:19 PM »

Thans Massimo and mister KL,
it's allways a pleasure how fast you answer to any question!

in this pics wecan compare red star given in the decals and Akhan AII red Ipaint in a piece of plastic card...



I have to send this piece of plastic card to a friend of mine who is decal printer and he will make me red star in AII colour...

Xan
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learstang
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2011, 10:32:06 PM »

Konstantin, thank you for the info on the red paint!  That one little fragment of LaGG-3 has proved to be very useful over the years.  It's a pity there aren't more well-preserved pieces of GPW aircraft like that (or maybe there are, and we're just not seeing them here in the West).  Xan, it may be my monitor, my failing eyesight, etc., but that AKAN red looks rather orange to me, more so than the stars, which look just a little orange to me also.

Regards,

Jason
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KL
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2011, 10:46:36 PM »



both AKAN reds are described as "vitsvetshiy" meaning they are supposed to represent FADED colours.  Akanihin probably based them on relics/wrecks, not on etalons or "Albom Nakrasok" chips.
 Cool
KL
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xan
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2011, 11:18:33 PM »

Is there more than one Akan red ? I only know 73041 reference...

Do you mean that this red can't be used as this for red stars in mormal planes ?
Is a traditional red given in all the decals closer in the red star than this red ?

Xan

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learstang
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2011, 11:42:26 PM »

That's interesting about the AKAN reds, Konstantin.  Even looking at that famous old fragment of the LaGG-3, the red still appears quite bright and vibrant, and VERY red.

Regards,

Jason
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2011, 01:35:07 PM »

Hi Xan, hi all,
there are three Soviet gpw reds from Akan:
AII red, acrilic http://www.akan.ru/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&category_id=40&page=shop.browse&Itemid=2&limit=20&limitstart=20
AII red, enamel http://www.akan.ru/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&category_id=39&page=shop.browse&Itemid=2&limit=20&limitstart=40
A-13 red, enamel. http://www.akan.ru/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&category_id=39&page=shop.browse&Itemid=2&limit=20&limitstart=60

Probably he'll produce an acrilic A-13 in the future to complete the collection.
Regards
Massimo
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xan
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2011, 03:44:14 PM »

hello,
here's another pic taken by day (not a sunny day)



Jason is right, the red star of the Lagg-3 is not orange at all.
neither are those one:





another reference could be the I-153 restoring:





even if sanded, it's not very orange too.

As I told you, I have the possibility too make red star with the Akan tonality, but i don't think more it will be very accurate.
I have the model box decals and finally it would closer to reality
what do you think about?

Xan
What do you think ?

« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 03:47:43 PM by xan » Logged

learstang
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2011, 05:59:09 PM »

I'd say go with the kit decals - that AKAN red is just too orange to my eyes.

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

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John Thompson
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2011, 06:45:18 PM »

Hi xan - I have the same red as you've posted (73041, the acrylic AII Kr red), and it looks good to me, applied over two other colours - dark blue and light grey. Here it is over the dark blue (a solvent-based lacquer; that's why the plastic looks rough):



Hmmm - I'm not sure my image really proves anything - because of the reflection of light on the surface, it looks brighter in the photo than it does in real life. My hope, when I finish the Zvezda 1/72 Yak-3 I'm working on very slowly, is that I can paint it using the Akan colour as Nosov's "Red 12" with the red nose, but painting it will have to wait until either (or both) of the Yak-3 decal sheets from Authentic and Begemot are released. That's assuming Nosov's Yak-3 is included in either of them - previous discussions about this aircraft suggest that no photos exist, so...  Huh

John
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 07:06:18 PM by John Thompson » Logged
KL
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2011, 09:06:23 PM »

Xan,
hard to say from photos only... Sad

the colour should be bright red, not orange.  It's not dark red either!!!

Not sure about this, but it's probably what in English is called "scarlet".  Or, Ferari red...  Huh

from  http://www.comm-art.ru/12s-su.htm

Красный - полотно
CMYK - C0/M100/Y100/K0
Pantone - на мелованной и немелованной бумаге применяйте 485 цвет (485c, 485u)
Pantone 485 = 50% Pantone Yellow + 50% Pantone Rubine Red
RGB - R230/G0/B0
Web - E60000
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2011, 06:44:28 AM »

Konstantin

Colours are difficult to define, but this is a yellow tinted red, not orange, but heading that way. 

This is seen in the CMYK and pantone compositions.

Quite possibly under certain light condition and/or fading, it could appear a dark orange.

Before a long argument on colour starts, a chap on Britmodeller posted this in this thread.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=76155&st=20

Quote
here is an online test you can take to assess your own colour acuity:-

FM100 Hue Test  http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77

It's fun. I scored 0 in the test (you don't want a high score).

All the squares are different colours. On small not very good monitor I did not get 0, but on a better bigger monitor I got 0.   

The test deals with quite subtle shading, in areas where it is easy to confuse colours.  Try it, you'll see what I mean.

The thread should be of interest to VVS modellers as many pics of VVS P-40s, B, E and K models are to RAF camouflage specifications, but diverted to the VVS.

The chap who posted in this is Nick Millman, who does the Aviation of Japan blog as well as this, which I linked to in the thread about VVS P-40's and Airacobras -  http://amair4raf.blogspot.com/

cheers
T
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KL
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« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2011, 08:16:23 PM »

Hi Troy,
Thanks for the link.  I found interesting how some believe that even in US during the war standards were not followed, paint producers did not/could not(?) produce prescribed shades, how aircraft producers could skip primer to save money, etc.
Nick clearly demonstrated that there were consequences for those who may have deviated from the standards or that aircraft manufacturers (Northrop) did follow painting standards even if they did not apply primer.
It turns out that those myths about loose regulations originate from the interpretation of colour photographs (!), some second hand memories and preserved parts/fragments that nobody has ever seen.  Sounds familiar?..   Lips Sealed

BTW, I scored 34.  I?ll try again in the morning (my tired eyes need some rest?).

Cheers,
KL
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