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Author Topic: I-16 Red or Yellow 30?  (Read 12890 times)
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2011, 06:17:37 PM »

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Why are the red stars and the number matt?  They look matt on the photo, they were not nesesarilly matt in reality.  Could be the lighting...  If photographer task was to capture reflectivity of stars, he would have found better angle.  Unfortunatelly, his interest was pilot - plane was decoration in the background.
In my idea, the curved surface is the ideal to put in evidence the reflex of the sky. But if you say so...

Quote
PS:  Modeling based on b/w photo interpretation only is boring?

Many things are boring

Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2011, 07:04:41 PM »

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PS:  Modeling based on b/w photo interpretation only is boring?

Many things are boring

Just joking.  Smiley  I hope you found information about 286 iap interesting.  It helps to understand colours...
KL
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xan
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« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2011, 12:55:34 AM »

In summer 1942, it was very possible to find an overhauled I-16 on frontline.  The possibility to find AII Green insted of AMT-4 in factories on new planes was much lower, this might have been different in overhaul depots.

Were the I-16 still produced in summer of 1942?
I thought they weren't, that's why I was thinking about AII green...
If they were, OK, the green had to be the AMT-4...
Xan
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2011, 03:59:00 PM »

Hi Konstantin, hi Xan,
I see, you mean that you mean that if the plane of Ustinov shows signs of repainting, the plane of Bratushko was likely repainted. It is possible.

I'm interested into the photos of the Li-2s, I am just collecting photos and I have this version of one :



and there is something different on the rudder, I wonder why.

regards

Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2011, 06:01:17 PM »

I'm interested into the photos of the Li-2s, I am just collecting photos and I have this version of one :



and there is something different on the rudder, I wonder why.

It looks like (overpainted?) star... Huh

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learstang
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« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2011, 06:44:23 PM »

Interesting photograph, Massimo - I'm glad to see you're working on the Li-2.  Konstantin, your enhanced photograph seems to show an overpainted star - at least that's a reasonable guess.

Regards,

Jason
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KL
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« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2011, 07:48:21 PM »

Were the I-16 still produced in summer of 1942?
I thought they weren't, that's why I was thinking about AII green...
If they were, OK, the green had to be the AMT-4...

Last I-16s were made in 1941.
Factories 21 and 153 made about 100 I-16s in 1941.  Two-seat UTI-4 remained in production: more then 900 were made in 1941, plus 83 that were made in 1942.

Last I-16s made in 1941 were painted in glossy AII Green, those were made before June 1941 Camouflage Directive.  This may or may not be relevant for summer 1942 I-16s ? for the following reasons:

In 1941 VVS had lost thousands of first line planes, at the same time factories were evacuated to the East and it took some time to re-instate production.  In those conditions every plane became valuable.  Damaged planes, old planes and planes from schools were overhauled and sent to the front.  Overhauled planes were common in VVS units in 1942; those planes were flown before units received new planes from evacuated factories.

This 1941-42 effort by depots and workshops was so important that it was recorded even on propaganda photos:


I-16 shot down near Ladoga Lake was overhauled and in few days it flew again


Mig-3s overhauled in workshops of the besieged Leningrad

Factory 51 (Moscow) became an I-16 overhaul depot:















If Bratushko?s plane was photographed in summer-fall 1941 it would be straigt forward ? original factory AII green.  In summer 1942 it become more complex?

Original paragraph from http://13army.school252.ru/aerodrom.html
В те сентябрьские дни 1941 года, когда Государственный комитет  обороны принял постановление об организации воздушной связи между Москвой и Ленинградом, воздушный коридор превратился в арену жесточайших схваток, когда каждый самолёт был на вес золота. В ту пору, авиазаводы находились в пути, а те, что эвакуировались только налаживали серийный выпуск боевых машин.
В этой ситуации рабочие авиа мастерских совершили подвиг. В предельно короткий срок они восстановили повреждённые и сбитые на нашей территории самолёты.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 07:52:27 PM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2011, 10:20:14 PM »

The rudder should be the usual location for the stars on this type. The photos of the Li-2 show relevant differences on the fuselage too. I fear that one of the photos was heavily photoshopped.
About the I-16 in overhauling shops: they seem forthemost painted in a light color, but it doesn't seem white. On the other hand, stars shouldn't be painted on primers. What could it be?
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2011, 10:31:45 PM »

Massimo, could it just be the bright, artificial lighting in the factories?

Regards,

Jason
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John Thompson
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« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2011, 11:02:45 PM »

In summer 1942, it was very possible to find an overhauled I-16 on frontline.  The possibility to find AII Green insted of AMT-4 in factories on new planes was much lower, this might have been different in overhaul depots.

Were the I-16 still produced in summer of 1942?
I thought they weren't, that's why I was thinking about AII green...
If they were, OK, the green had to be the AMT-4...
Xan


This might be useful; it's a table of aircraft production numbers by type and factory during the GPW:

http://www.onairpower.org/docs/Soviet_Aircraft_Production_by_Aircraft_Type_and_Factory,_1941-1945

John

Edit - Hah! Then I actually looked at the table myself, and noticed that it doesn't even include the I-16! Well, bookmark it in case you need it in the future...  Embarrassed
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 11:12:06 PM by John Thompson » Logged
John Thompson
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« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2011, 11:08:42 PM »

About the I-16 in overhauling shops: they seem forthemost painted in a light color, but it doesn't seem white. On the other hand, stars shouldn't be painted on primers. What could it be?
Regards
Massimo

The stars seem unusually large - possibly they were non-standard markings painted over the primer especially for a publicity event such as a photo shoot for a newspaper?

John
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KL
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« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2011, 12:02:10 AM »

The stars seem unusually large - possibly they were non-standard markings painted over the primer especially for a publicity event such as a photo shoot for a newspaper?


an example for overhauled I-16 and oversized red stars
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 12:05:40 AM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2011, 08:33:47 AM »

Now that I note: it's a pair of white planes on a ground without snow. Not thought to last for long time, it seems.
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2011, 07:03:37 PM »

In summer 1942, it was very possible to find an overhauled I-16 on frontline.  The possibility to find AII Green insted of AMT-4 in factories on new planes was much lower, this might have been different in overhaul depots.

Were the I-16 still produced in summer of 1942?
I thought they weren't, that's why I was thinking about AII green...
If they were, OK, the green had to be the AMT-4...
Xan


This might be useful; it's a table of aircraft production numbers by type and factory during the GPW:

http://www.onairpower.org/docs/Soviet_Aircraft_Production_by_Aircraft_Type_and_Factory,_1941-1945

John

Edit - Hah! Then I actually looked at the table myself, and noticed that it doesn't even include the I-16! Well, bookmark it in case you need it in the future...  Embarrassed

The important thing, of course, is that it includes the IL-2.  Thank you for the link, John!

Regards,

Jason
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