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Author Topic: Yak-9 "southfront" cammo?  (Read 16361 times)
warhawk
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« on: January 08, 2012, 07:03:26 PM »

I am aware that this cammo is a fantasy of EP, but this photo leaves me a conundrum:
Surely it is not AMT-11/12 scheme... The contrast between upper colors is just too high

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learstang
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2012, 09:03:12 PM »

One explanation could be that it's taken in bright sunlight (there don't seem to be any clouds).  It curious how the darker topside colour abruptly becomes darker when going from one panel to next, aft of the exhausts.  Some repainting because of exhaust stains?

Regards,

Jason
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2012, 08:24:15 AM »

Hi,
really an interesting image. What is the source? Are other informations known?
The photo is very clear, I don't think that sunlight can affect it. It is really an unusual color, we can compare it to the landing gear doors that are under the very same light.
The star is of late type, post-summer 1943.

Regards
Massimo
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warhawk
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2012, 11:53:04 AM »

I found it while organizing my Yak folder, dunno when and where I downloaded it...
I even tried the TinEye Reverse Image Search, but to no avail (the source is obviously long gone...)

I agree, the photo is too clear for sunlight to affect it that much...
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KL
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2012, 08:09:40 PM »

Warhawk,
Yak on your image is either in green-black scheme or in gray-gray scheme.  Probability for any other colour are close to 0.  Smiley

Your Yak saved as 16-bit grayscale image:


Compare it with Yak-9 images from airwar.ru -  those are 100% in gray-gray scheme.  I selected photos with more contrast












Do you believe all those Yaks were painted for combat in Libyan desert???
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 08:17:33 PM by KL » Logged
warhawk
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2012, 08:26:57 PM »

OK, thanks for the comparison...
Still not sure how this contrast occurs on only some photos...
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2012, 09:16:33 PM »

Hi,
none is thinking to Lybian desert, but it's hard to believe that this color is the same tested on another topic. The variability is visible on many photos, I know, but there are also many photos showing that repaintings were much different than the original colors. So, or the colors faded quickly, or there were many variants of the same colors. Should the colors be stable and fully standardized, repainting should be nearly unvisible.
Note that a pair of light patches are well distinguishable on the nose of the 'desert' plane; it could be a worn grey-grey plane whose AMT-11 faded parts were partially repainted with a lighter grey or even light blue.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2012, 10:01:56 PM »

...how this contrast occurs on only some photos...

contrast in b/w photography depends on many factors, not only on colour - it depends on lighting, film sensitivity, surface condition etc.  Both green-black and gray-gray schemes on period photos appear over the entire range of contrasts.  on some photos contrast is minimal, on some moderate, on some high.  There are many cases when gray-gray scheme was interpreted as solid gray, due to the low contrast.  Pilawskii wrote how planes were factory painted in single gray and that some were modified in the field in two gray (actualy gray-green) scheme - check color profiles in his book!

Note that a pair of light patches are well distinguishable on the nose of the 'desert' plane; it could be a worn grey-grey plane whose AMT-11 faded parts were partially repainted with a lighter grey or even light blue.

 
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2012, 07:29:00 AM »

It could alse be that a photo is defective or manipulated, the grass and the sky looks manipulated to be sharper, but there are lots of photos of Yaks (as the famous 22) that looks clearly the repaintings.
Returning on this photo, it is also interesting to see how the shade changes sharply in front of the oil cooler intake passing from the side to the lower panel. This is strange, and possible only if the lower panel is darker than the side panel. Clearly not the same color of the landing gear door.
The dark (black?) spinner is unusual too, they were usually black on green/black planes, but this looks a Yak-9M of early 1944.
I think that we should ask some Russians to detect the source of this photo that has a mark on it.
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2012, 10:59:26 AM »

Hi,
AR has collected the suggestion that the plane could also be a postwar Bulgarian plane, because the mark gives the idea to be Bulgarian. Who has other photos of Bulgarian Yak-9M  with star-shaped marks?
Regards
Massimo
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John Thompson
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2012, 05:12:24 PM »

Hi,
AR has collected the suggestion that the plane could also be a postwar Bulgarian plane, because the mark gives the idea to be Bulgarian. Who has other photos of Bulgarian Yak-9M  with star-shaped marks?
Regards
Massimo

That's pretty funny - I'm really starting to believe I must be psychic. Not knowledgable, just psychic. The first thing I thought of when I saw the photo was Bulgaria, too, but when I checked Wings Palette for Bulgarian markings, I got this page, which does not show any with star markings:
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/15/243/0

There is a second page with two post-war Bulgarian Yak-9's, but those also do not have stars.

According to Wikipedia, a star insignia was introduced in 1948:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bulgarian_Air_Force_roundel_1948.svg

I wasn't able to find a photo of a Yak-9M with this marking; did Bulgaria continue to use the early-type M-105-powered Yak-9 after 1948?

Hungary, perhaps? I could only find images of the Yak-9P in Hungarian markings, though - no Yak-9M or Yak-9D, and the aircraft in the photo is clearly not a Yak-9P. I don't think Hungary is as flat as the background of the photo shows, either. Let me look deeper into my crystal ball - I mean, my computer monitor... Cheesy

John
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 05:41:26 PM by John Thompson » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2012, 06:14:55 PM »

Hi John,
a Yak-9M in 1948... not too likely, I fear. Let's see if other informations will emerge...
In the meanwhile, I've made a test: to replace the sky of the image with a lighter one, but the impression of a very light color on the camouflage is still persisting.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2012, 06:38:55 PM »

"криле" (krile) must be "Wings" in Bulgarian cyrillic... Cheesy

Bulgarian Yak-9M from http://crimso.msk.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft20042.htm



If Bulagarian Yak, it should be Yak-9M.




Yak-9M was the most numerous Yak-9 modification. Over 4,000 were made between May 1944 and June 1945.  Factory camoflage was gray-gray, no doubts. 
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KL
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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2012, 07:00:09 PM »

I wasn't able to find a photo of a Yak-9M with this marking; did Bulgaria continue to use the early-type M-105-powered Yak-9 after 1948?

Most Bulgarian Yak-9Ms were handed over to Yugoslav Air Force in 1947 or 1948.  In Yugoslavia they were converted in two-seaters called UYak-9 and used as trainers till early fifties.
Another photo of a Bulgarian Yak-9M, apparently from 1950es



and one more:
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 07:25:59 PM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2012, 07:43:34 PM »

Hi Konstantin,
good research.




There is some resemblance, isn't it?

Regards
Massimo
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