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Author Topic: Soviet Me-109 E  (Read 7423 times)
SergeyV
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« on: January 19, 2012, 02:28:02 PM »

Hi, everyone.

I'd like to turn to you with a question. I have seen profile of one of 5 Me-109E which were supplied under the Soviet-German Pact in May 1940 to Moscow Central Airfield, USSR for testings. I'd like to make a model of such a machine but not sure about paint scheme of these - I think, that these were E-3 modification, but as for camo - there are 3 variants as for me:
 
1). 70/71/65 camo scheme
2). Overall green - 70 or 71 with 65 applied to undersurfaces.
3). Or other - applied by soviet side with red stars later application.

Link to profile: http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/32/pics/1_1.jpg
 
Could you suggest anything on this subject?
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John Thompson
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2012, 04:55:51 PM »

Hi Sergey - welcome to the forum! I'm sorry that I don't have any information to offer - I didn't even know that Germany had given these aircraft to Russia for testing. There was a thread on this forum regarding a Russian Bf-109F, but this was a captured machine, not a gift. Have you tried the Scalemodels.ru forum for German (or Axis) aircraft before 1950? Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that you speak Russian!  Smiley

Best regards;
John
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TISO
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2012, 05:48:09 PM »

AFAIK Soviet union bought some planes for testing purposes (Do-215, Ju-88A, Fi-156 etc). I'm not absolutely shure about Bf-109E AFAIK they bought a couple of examples. The Bf-109B was captured in Spain shiped to SSSR and recaptured by germans in 1941
Re colours exported Bf-109E-3 for Yugoslavia were 2 colour combination of solid RLM 70 Schwartzgrun on upper surfaces and  RLM 65 on lower surfaces
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 05:50:23 PM by TISO » Logged
KL
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2012, 06:09:05 PM »

... I didn't even know that Germany had given these aircraft to Russia for testing.

5 Me-109Es were bought for testing before the German attack in June 1941.  Other German planes purchased at that time include He-100, Fw-58, Fi-156, Do-215, Ju-88A and Ju-52 engine test bed.

Some results of Me-109E tests were published by BNT NKAP and are available at   http://www.airpages.ru/mn/bf109e3_00.shtml



1941 Report called Общее описание самолета Ме-109 Е3 by И. В. Шепетков can be downloaded at
http://mirknig.com/knigi/military_history/1181369201-obschee-opisanie-samoleta-me-109-e3.html
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 07:19:55 PM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2012, 07:35:48 PM »

Hi Konstantin,
strangely, the plane of the photo looks an earlier version, despite the title of the report.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2012, 08:24:43 PM »

strangely, the plane of the photo looks an earlier version, despite the title of the report.

The photo is Messershchmitt's promotional photo, one from a series:






the plane is old Jumo powered Bf-109B.  In 1941 Soviet report used to illustrate generic Me-109 fighter.

... The Bf-109B was captured in Spain shiped to SSSR and recaptured by germans in 1941

This is Maslov's fantasy - Me-109B (actually Me-109A) crushed during flight tests - its tail broke off.  Event was described in P. Stefanovski's memoirs.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 09:51:40 PM by KL » Logged
KL
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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2012, 08:12:09 AM »

from following book


Me-109E at NII VVS in 1940:



IMHO, Soviet Me-109Es were identical to Swiss or Yugoslav "Emils"

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SergeyV
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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2012, 10:25:23 AM »

Thank you very much for your help all of you!

И Константину отдельное огромное спасибо за фотографии!!!!!

I also think that this was a 2 color camo scheme - so now I know how to paint it.

Thank you very much again!

Sergey
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2012, 06:35:08 PM »

Hi,
I'm not sure, but I think that the plane could be splinter-camouflaged, there is an angular demarcation line visible over the supercharger intake.
I've found a photo of a Me-109 E3 in German markings with the very same pattern of the 109D above, and the comment: 'Soviet aviation specialists after examination of a bf109E fighter'.
Of course, this is not a proof because the plane is in German markings, but we could look for other photos of German Bf-109D and E with the same pattern to see if it has the very same 'lines' visible on the left side of the Soviet 109 at NII VVS.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 07:49:54 PM »

.. a photo of a Me-109 E3 in German markings with the very same pattern of the 109D above, and the comment: 'Soviet aviation specialists after examination of a bf109E fighter'.
Of course, this is not a proof because the plane is in German markings, but we could look for other photos of German Bf-109D and E with the same pattern to see if it has the very same 'lines' visible on the left side of the Soviet 109 at NII VVS.



IMHO, analogy with other export Me-109Es is more useful in this case...  the rest is interpretation of shadows  Wink
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2012, 10:11:37 PM »

Hi Konstantin,
perhaps... but I don't see protrusions able to project that shadow. One could at least attempt a research on German prewar Me.109s.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2012, 11:05:39 PM »

perhaps... but I don't see protrusions able to project that shadow. One could at least attempt a research on German prewar Me.109s.

Agree, it's a question for LW Experten!  Grin

but, why would Soviet Emils differ from other export Me-109Es?
Another Swiss Emil


Not only Swiss and Yugoslavian, but Romanian Emils too!



together with German "splinter" camouflaged Me-109E for comparison
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AC26
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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2012, 09:11:26 PM »

Agree, it's a question for LW Experten!  Grin

but, why would Soviet Emils differ from other export Me-109Es?
I don't count myself as Luftwaffe Experten, but IIRC Swiss Bf 109E's had local, not German, armament.

Greetings,

AaCee
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barneybolac
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« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2018, 09:02:13 AM »

AFAIK Soviet union bought some planes for testing purposes (Do-215, Ju-88A, Fi-156 etc).

Well this has to be one of the JU-88's then.

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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


WWW
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2018, 11:21:59 AM »

Hi,
follwong photos are from http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft20079-3.htm:
Soviet delegation in Germany, 1939:


Bf 109E-3 S/N 2738 during trials by HII VVS KA:

http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/AK/AK2000-02/7-1.jpg

Looks like original German 70/71/65 camo scheme and marking was completly repainted to then VVS standard - very glossy (silver or light blue AII?) underwing and solid dark green upperwing, no red stars.
Regards,
  66misos
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