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Author Topic: P-40 on a "naval blue scheme"?????  (Read 7161 times)
Saivila
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« on: January 24, 2012, 10:47:15 AM »

P-40 on a "naval blue scheme" .I have seen these several times.models and profiles of Safonovs P-40 E on this mystery scheme.

"It's pure fantasy" says Sergey. I have seen only that  famous pic. Safonov standing in the cocpit.

I found this "Sergeys" guess from HyperScale's Aircraft Scale Modelling Discussion Forum. 
He says that Safonovs P-40 was painted on "standard" OD HG. Safonovs plane was model E ,came from RAF Huh

Anyway - i have never seen a pic from any P-40 model E  (RAF Kittyhawk 1A) ,painted on single colour. They were allways painted on two tone. Dark Green with Brown or Grey. Just like Spits and Hurricanes. USAF paint their aircraft  same way but as we know ,shades made by Du Pont.  Patterns are anyway the same British ,variant A or B, including the brown /sand  desert colouring which one i think ditn't exist on VVS . All model E:s are build on same Curtiss factory in Buffalo NY.  Model E was ,as we know - most common subtype on VVS.


On the other hand - all model M and N types that i have seen, got single coloured upper surfaces.
( excluded the white rear fuselages for example)  Some look darker than others like many other US aircraft ..but anyway  the reasons for these are unknown..to me.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/message/1283143283/Boris+Safonov%27s+last+P-40

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/message/1283193092/Re-+Boris+Safonov%27s+last+P-40
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2012, 05:02:34 PM »

Hi Saivila,
I see that Safonov died in 1942. It would be too early for an overall AMT-11 finish, because that grey-blue was not yet in use.
In your opinion, is the photo large and clear enough to exclude that the plane was camouflaged?
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2012, 07:08:19 PM »

One photo that shows less than 3 square feet below the cockpit can not be used as a proof that the whole plane was painted in solid colour!

There is absolutelly no proof that any P-40Es were painted in US Navy Dark Blue.  This was a profile artist's guess that became a legend among modellers.  Some modellers just trive on fantasies - more fantastic, the better.

Reliable information about P-40 in VVS service by V. Romanenko is available at  http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-40/index.htm

P-40E from the same 2nd giap and from same period (spring 1942):


Happy modelling,
KL
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John Thompson
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2012, 08:56:51 PM »

Probably stretching this explanation a bit, but perhaps in someone's mind, Northern Fleet Air Force = Navy = ANA607 Sea Blue must be applied to American aircraft intended for use by this Russian "navy". I'm surprised the profiles don't show a tailhook as well!

John
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Saivila
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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2012, 10:44:51 PM »

Allright.That's the way it goes. Like i was thinkin. Thanks very Much guys. By the way..was it White 10?
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KL
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2012, 11:30:05 PM »

... in someone's mind, Northern Fleet Air Force = Navy = ANA607 Sea Blue must be applied to American aircraft intended for use by this Russian "navy". I'm surprised the profiles don't show a tailhook as well!

 Smiley This is a good one!!!   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

..was it White 10?

supposadly, there is a news reel, a movie, that confirms No 10 as Safonovs plane.  Huh

There is also so much speculation about Safonov in popular Russian literature that everything should be taken with a grain of salt.   Lips Sealed

This profile explaines origin of US Navy blue:  Safonov's P-40 had a more powerfull radio; in someone's mind this meant that the plane previosly belonged to US Marine Corps... Lips Sealed Lips Sealed Lips Sealed

Editors of the Russian Magazine had to add that in 1942 USMC operated only Navy planes....
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KL
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2012, 12:41:35 AM »

... in someone's mind, Northern Fleet Air Force = Navy = ANA607 Sea Blue must be applied to American aircraft intended for use by this Russian "navy". I'm surprised the profiles don't show a tailhook as well!

 Smiley This is a good one!!!   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

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learstang
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2012, 12:44:44 AM »

There you go, Konstantin.  This P-40 has a tailhook, the Soviets used P-40's, therefore Soviet P-40's had tailhooks!

Regards,

Jason 
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KL
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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 06:06:47 PM »

Hi Saivila,
an aswer on your question from the "highest instances" at http://www.redbanner.co.uk/History/ace_aircraft/safonov/safonov.html
(maybe "author" visits this forum, or a pure coincidence?  Shocked)




Quote
This aircraft has been persistently rendered in various colour profiles as having been painted in a medium-to-dark blue colour. At the time of writing, I have yet to ascertain any substantial reasons for such a claim.

I must say that I remain thoroughly unconvinced regarding such repainting. In the first case, the depicted colour does not correspond to any authentic Soviet aviation lacquer of the period; it therefore cannot be correct. Secondly, whilst no one would question that the Navy's aircraft camouflage was not at times quite...erm... "unique", there appear to be no other examples of these early P-40Es which share the same appearance. The majority of the first batch of such machines delivered to the 126 IAP and the 154 IAP were finished with American Du Pont paints in their 'RAF equivalent' two-tone disruptive scheme. A few of the 126 IAP examples (near Moscow) looked to have a monotone upper surface, which of course would be expected to be Olive Drab. The first P-40E examined at the NII VVS (from the same delivery) was also painted in the Du Pont two-tone livery. Moreover, a shot taken during the summer of 1942 at the 2 GvSAP shows P-40Es wearing the Du Pont two-tone scheme, as well. Finally, the best image we have of what is likely "White 10" shows what may be a lighter area on the fuselage aft of the opened sliding hood. If true, this is in agreement with the standard pattern application of P-40Es completed with the Du Pont scheme during 1941.

What we need most are more images of early 2 GvSAP Kittyhawks, but even minus such we must ask why Safonov's aircraft should be painted "blue"? I can see no reason for such a supposition, and I am aware of no written evidence suggesting this appearance. To me, the most likely finish to be found on "White 10" would have been a Du Pont camouflage application. Thereafter, a single colour upper surface would be explained by the normal Olive Drab scheme. Blue-- and if such were the case then the finish would have to have been something like AE-10 Grey-Blue lacquer-- simply does not present itself as a likely possibility.
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JP
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WWW
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2012, 06:14:13 AM »

It wouldn't be the first time someone "borrowed" some of our research...
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2012, 07:22:02 AM »

Hi John, hi all,
now I see thatt the colors of the drawing of EP are inverted when compared to the photo of 10.
Regards
Massimo
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