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Author Topic: Request for color comparison chart  (Read 8446 times)
Palanadine
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« on: February 03, 2012, 07:15:05 PM »

 Good evening

 Forgive me if i have overlooked something, but so far have been unable to find an as complete as possible chart with the equivalent (or as near to) in modeling colors to Soviet/ Russian aircraft ones.

 I have of course already bookmarked and gone through Massimo's chart about the period 1937-1947, found here: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/color-table.html

 However, i would be very interested if we DO have a reference chart available, like for instance:

AMT 4 -> FS (2/3)4102 / Akan: 301 /  Humbrol: 117  /  Tamiya: XF-61 (x2) + XF-65(x1)  /  Xtracolor: X116 /  Gunze Sangyo: H303 /  Model Master: 1713 /  Vallejo Model Color: Huh

 OR

AMT 7 -> FS 35190 / Akan: 302 / Humbrol: 89 / Tamiya : Huh / Xtracolor: Huh / Gunze Sangyo: H Huh / Model Master: Huh / Vallejo Model Color: 70.970

 Maybe even make a sticky of it, contribute say, in this thread, and an administrator/ moderator could update the stickied thread so that remains clean.

 How about it?

 Regards,

 Panayotis
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2012, 09:51:52 PM »

Hi Panayotis,
I've already made an attempt to do this at
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/humbrol/greens.htm
and
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/humbrol/light-blues.htm,
but I've a bit abandoned the work because the comparison between digital chips is too subject to errors. To create a color map, it's necessary to have material chips to compare. The use of conventional catalogues as Federal Standard is still a much better way than utilizing scans.
I've made a direct comparison between Humbrol and some Akan colors here:
http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=783.105.
Having not other paints in my home if not Humbrols , I can't do more.
Regards
Massimo
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Palanadine
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2012, 10:40:37 PM »

 Thank you for the response Massimo. I had already spotted the third thread you linked, hadn't found the first two.

 It is understandable that this is quite a task for a single person to perform, nor would i ask it of you. However, what i propose is that anyone who has an idea about any company's color matching to a Soviet/ Russian color should say so, then anyone with the proper knowledge would decide whether it is accurate or not, and add it to the chart.

 Going with FS coding can sometimes be a moot point, as not all codes are linked to a color. Many are just place holders for when a shade is used (at least that is what it looks like). And even so, it is sometimes quite frustrating to discover that starting off with one FS code, further search reveals its another FS code that is correct!

 As for digital scan comparisons, i agree, too many errors. Guess a first step would be to just sort through colors and pick some approximate matches, then narrow it down till we get 1-2 "best possible" matches. Something that will help as a starting point, a guideline if you will, to reduce the time spent trying to figure out if the color can we just bought (or plan to buy) is as good as possible/ passable/ nothing to do with reality.

 After all, the only colors that were '100% correct' where those freshly applied to the real aircraft!

 Regards,

 Panayotis
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 04:46:53 AM by Palanadine » Logged

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learstang
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2012, 05:20:34 AM »

Panayotis, I can give you some of my matches for Testors Model Master enamels.  I make no guarantees, either express or implied as to their accuracy, but they're what I'm comfortable using (at the moment).  For AMT-7 Blue I use Russian Topside Blue; for AMT-6 Black I use MM, well, Black; for AMT-4 Green I use Interior Green, for AMT-11 Blue Grey I use Medium Gray, for AMT-12 Dark Grey I use Gunship Gray, for AMT-1 Light Brown I use Afrika Dunkelgrau '42, and for A-14 Steel Grey I use Neutral Gray.  Again, they're what I'm comfortable using - I don't like acrylics (they don't get along with my airbrush), and I don't like gloss paints (too long to dry!) so these are all flat enamels.  I find they work well with my airbrush and dry quickly.  At any rate that's my tuppence.

Regards,

Jason  
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 05:23:09 AM by learstang » Logged

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Palanadine
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2012, 10:51:41 AM »

...
 I make no guarantees, either express or implied as to their accuracy, but they're what I'm comfortable using (at the moment). 
...

 That is more or less what i was thinking about. Posting what we believe is closest then check if it's a good enough working match. Thanks Jason! I will start searching for complete color lists of available model paints and start comparing them to real a/c colors.

 For sure it will take a while, it will be as you quite correctly said, NOT guaranteed to be 100% accurate, but it will be a starting point so that others can add their opinion.

 Regards,
 
 Panayotis
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2012, 07:50:11 AM »

Hi Panayotis, hi Jason,
the best way to do this could be to take as a base the colors of Aken that looks reliable, despite the doubts on their darkness; if somebody owing these paints can make multiple chips and send them to other people willing to compare them to their favourite paint line, it could be possible to build a full color table. I think that this can't be made in reliable way by comparing digital chips: one has to see two real chips under the same light, and maybe photograph them side by side in the same shot.
Regards
Massimo
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Palanadine
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2012, 01:06:18 PM »

Hi Panayotis, hi Jason,
the best way to do this could be to take as a base the colors of Aken that looks reliable, despite the doubts on their darkness; if somebody owing these paints can make multiple chips and send them to other people willing to compare them to their favourite paint line, it could be possible to build a full color table. I think that this can't be made in reliable way by comparing digital chips: one has to see two real chips under the same light, and maybe photograph them side by side in the same shot.
Regards
Massimo

 Thank you for your input Massimo.

 First of all i would like to mention that with a bit deeper searching, i stumbled upon the fact that AKAH paints come in two varieties. Those that are a perceived to be a bit darker than what we would deem to be right, and those that are supposedly representing already weathered colors!

 Personally, as modelling is - as known fact - serious business, i find it quite humorous, if also at the same time kinda frustrating!  Grin Grin

 Having no wish at all to cause any misunderstanding and resentment, being a new member and having not as an extensive research base as others here, will only say that even if we do get to make such a color comparison chart, it will always come down to personal judgment and opinion.

 I will take my favorite tools, pen and paper, and start going by color chips one by one and try to come up with reasonable guestimates on accuracy. Then will post my findings and be more than happy to receive critics and advice!

 Regards,

 Panyotis

 PS: having read about Pilawski, is his work totally a work of fiction, or is there any basis on reality. And even if there are nuggets of truth in it, is it worth going through it with a comb to try and find the real facts among the fantasy?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 01:08:59 PM by Palanadine » Logged

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2012, 03:52:37 PM »

Hi Panayotis
the work that I am suggesting would create a photographic comparison between AKAN paints and chips of other firms; then, one could choose if to use, on his models,  the closer paint as it is, to mix it to obtain a better match or to choose a different shade for his own reasons.
A list of suggestions from many modellers, without a photographic comparison of both colors on the same photo, can be useful to avoid the embarassement of the choice to paint a model, but it can't be proven as correct.

Worn colors in AKAN directory? Could you give the links, please? 
I know only of an enamel line and an acrylic line, with acrylics reportedly slightly darker than the enamels. If there is anythink new, please keep us informed.

Quote
PS: having read about Pilawski, is his work totally a work of fiction, or is there any basis on reality. And even if there are nuggets of truth in it, is it worth going through it with a comb to try and find the real facts among the fantasy?
By sure, the work of Pilawskii has elements of truth, probably related to his partial translation of the works of Orlov, mixed with some misunderstandments, some old misconceptions and some fantasy. It was better than the other things written before in English, but it's unreliable. To distinguish good things from bad things, one has to know more than him, so the book itself becomes unuseful as a source. Of course, it is always a book with many good photos.

Regards
Massimo
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Palanadine
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Posts: 45



« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2012, 04:56:41 PM »

Worn colors in AKAN directory? Could you give the links, please?  
I know only of an enamel line and an acrylic line, with acrylics reportedly slightly darker than the enamels. If there is anythink new, please keep us informed.

 Looking for a bit more detail on AKAH colors, i came across these conversations on Britmodeller and ARC:

1) http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=234910705
2) http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=234471

 They might have some nuggets of truth or might be total nonsense. Also, comparing color chips with the table of colors, this does pop up for some of them. But then again, everything is subjective, only an on-site comparison between real aircraft and model paints can really be definite.

A list of suggestions from many modellers, without a photographic comparison of both colors on the same photo, can be useful to avoid the embarassement of the choice to paint a model, but it can't be proven as correct.

 Quite true. In that case, if the AKAN colors, lighter or darker, are a good starting point, i may well order a set of them sometime soon. This way, having already many Humbrol and Gunze paints in stock, as well as a complete cross-reference of those with Vallejo acrylics, i can easily compare them - not to mention send you some color chips of side by side comparison.

 Regards,

 Panayotis
 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 05:03:15 PM by Palanadine » Logged

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2012, 10:13:53 PM »

Hi Panayotis,
this would be good.
Take in account that I already have chips of the AII green and blue, AMT-4,7,11 and 12.
To tell the truth, Humbrols aren't much reliable for mixing, because their shades change strongly in dependance on how much they are mixed.
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2012, 10:32:00 PM »

I have all the Testors paints I mentioned, so if anyone wants to send me chips to compare, I can do so.

Regards,

Jason
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