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Author Topic: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko  (Read 24416 times)
KL
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« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2012, 05:29:38 AM »

[Are you sure for the number 25?



Is it silver???  Huh  You have probably seen it...
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Pascal
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« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2012, 05:26:04 PM »

No, I have not seen it, this pic comes from a friend... I'll ask him! But I believe you: I've said before that I see a different grey with white, probably because it is silver...

Jason, the kit is 1/48 Hasegawa, and it is very nice to assembly.

Pascal
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learstang
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« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2012, 05:51:31 PM »


Jason, the kit is 1/48 Hasegawa, and it is very nice to assembly.

Pascal

Thank you for the information, Pascal!  I didn't realise Hasegawa had one in 1/48th scale, though to be honest, 1/48th is not my scale.  I'm more interested in 1/72nd scale.  Nonetheless, I'll watch this build with interest, as I'm a big fan of the Soviet Kobras.

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2012, 02:06:57 PM »

Hi,

have you any idea what colors were used to overpaint RAF roundels on the fuselage/upperwings (green AMT-4?) and underwings (blue AMT-7?) ?
Similiar colors was probably used also for P-39 delivered directly from USA with Olive Drab on the upper surfaces and grey underwings.
Thak you.

Regards,
     66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2012, 02:24:11 PM »

Hi Misos,
if I remember well, green was used to delete the white fields on the undersurfaces of the P-39 preserved in a Finnish museum.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2012, 05:48:09 PM »

if I remember well, green was used to delete the white fields on the undersurfaces of the P-39 preserved in a Finnish museum.

white discs on the undersurfaces of the P-39 preserved in the Finnish AAA Museum are overpainted with grayish blue-green paint.  Fuselage white discs were overpainted with light gray-green paint.  Probably both are non-aviation oil paints.  It is important to note that different paints/shades were used for top and for undersides.
I wouldn't exclude use of spec. aviation oil paints to cover those white discs or USAF/RAF markings.

HTH,
KL 
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2012, 06:18:41 PM »

Hi,

have you any idea what colors were used to overpaint RAF roundels on the fuselage/upperwings (green AMT-4?) and underwings (blue AMT-7?) ?
Similiar colors was probably used also for P-39 delivered directly from USA with Olive Drab on the upper surfaces and grey underwings.
Thak you.

Regards,
     66misos

Hi Looked thorugh the thread, after a part writing a post

If your doing 'white 16' as in the pic further down...

But first, the pic bewlow seems to show an example of what I'm saying didn't happen much...

The b&w picture posted by KL on June 13, 2012:

shows red star with thin white outline plus repainting aound the star is clearly visible - very sharp demacration line and color different from original camo color.

Note the long thin barrel of the 20mm cannon in the propeller spinner.

If I have to make a decission as a modeller now, I would probably go for:
- grey/green camo,
- RAF roundels visibly overpainted,
- red stars with white outline,
- white "16"
- red tail tip.

Regards,
     66misos


BUT, if it's this plane...
Here are pictures from http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39
This is Capt. I. V. Bochkov also from the 19th GIAP in front of his P-400 Aircobra I number "16" in East Carelia in 1942:

The color around the fuselage red star seems to be different from camouflage color - looks like overpainted RAF roundel. Not sure whether red star has white outline or not (common since 1943, not in 1941/42).
This is exactly what i mean by the rest of the post....

It's quite possible they roundels were overpainted and red stars applied BEFORE delivery to the VVS, so RAF colours would have been used.
Looking through the thread agin I note I already posted some of this, but without a good photo...
I note you posted this
this applies to Day Fighter scheme (DFS) of Dark Green, Ocean Grey (or mixed grey) and Medium Sea Grey.
If in DFS then the match would have been good, but if in the original factory applied delivery scheme for the Airacobra which was the Temperate Land Scheme (TLS) of Dark Green, Dark Earth and Sky., then as the Airacobras were in US equivalent paint, then there would be a slight difference. [see the Boston below]..or

also see - http://amair4raf.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=airacobra

Note the sky turn up visible just before the tailplane
and

Quote
The well known photograph below shows either Ivan Bochkov or Efim Krivosheev in front of the latter's Cobra Bort # 16 of the 19 GIAP. The under surface colour sweep up under the tail may just be seen and this aircraft was almost certainly still in the Bell delivery colours of Du Pont Dark Green, Dark Earth and Sky.

There are photos of Spitfires being remarked like this in Iran, here they are after repainting.  If you look carefully you can see where the RAF roundels have been overpainted. Note upperwing stars, and black border on fuselage stars

Quote
Supermarine Spitfire Vb being prepared for delivery to the Soviet Union at Abadan, Iran in 1943.

Bearing this in mind then it explains why the painted out roundels are often in a similar shade of paint.

for example, here is an ex-raf Boston, note the carefully painted out roundel, and the matched camo demarcation line, though the Boston was painted by Douglas to RAF specifications there were slight differences in the colours.  There are photos of Boston at the factory in the US that shows this, though the difference is small as the colours were to British specifications.
[ see Nick Millmans blogspot for more on this - http://amair4raf.blogspot.co.uk]


and why these Hurricanes have upperwing stars.



Though this plane shows signs of extensive repainting of the rear fuselage and fin...that's another topic.

Have a look at your source picture, and make a best guess.   
Certainly the VVS painted out the US applied white discs,  but when the red stars were to a VVS standard they were used as supplied it seems, look at later B-25 in VVS specified camo or later Kingcobra deliveries for example.

Finally, in the post I took you quote from, you show some profiles...well, i'm now of the belief
 NEVER TRUST A PROFILE WITHOUT A SUPPORTING PHOTO!!!!!

glad i had a look through this again for the pic of bort 12 Konstantin posted
Cheers
T
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AC26
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« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2012, 08:44:35 PM »

white discs on the undersurfaces of the P-39 preserved in the Finnish AAA Museum are overpainted with grayish blue-green paint.  Fuselage white discs were overpainted with light gray-green paint.
Hi,

I'd say underwing overpainting to be a grayish green, but the fuselage overpainting is made with adark green color.

Cheers,

AaCee
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KL
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« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2012, 09:12:35 PM »

white discs on the undersurfaces of the P-39 preserved in the Finnish AAA Museum are overpainted with grayish blue-green paint.  Fuselage white discs were overpainted with light gray-green paint.

I'd say underwing overpainting to be a grayish green, but the fuselage overpainting is made with adark green color.
AaCee

Yes, I should have checked photos.  Surrounding of the fuselage disc is light gray-green...
But the fact that different paint was used for underside discs remains.  There was an attempt (not allways succesfull) to match colour with the surrounding American colour.



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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2012, 10:50:54 PM »

Looking at Hurricane n.14, I think to see a slogan on two lines in front of the star, but looks unreadable.
Regards
Massimo
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2012, 12:53:51 AM »

Looking at Hurricane n.14, I think to see a slogan on two lines in front of the star, but looks unreadable.
Regards
Massimo
Hi Massimo
there is another photo of n.14 in this thread here.
http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=877.0
which is clearer.  This side of the Hurricane has another rectangular access panel behind the first fabric covered panel, which look as if they have been replaced, or possibly left in the original finish, but hard to tell.
Also if you look at the picture of n.16 above you can see that two of the wing gun access panels are replacements.

cheers
T
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2012, 08:09:49 PM »

H Troy, I see the panel, but I think to see a writing too. Who knows if anyone can recognize some words of it?
Regards
Massimo
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AC26
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« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2012, 09:29:37 PM »

white discs on the undersurfaces of the P-39 preserved in the Finnish AAA Museum are overpainted with grayish blue-green paint.  Fuselage white discs were overpainted with light gray-green paint.

I'd say underwing overpainting to be a grayish green, but the fuselage overpainting is made with adark green color.
AaCee

Yes, I should have checked photos.  Surrounding of the fuselage disc is light gray-green...
But the fact that different paint was used for underside discs remains.  There was an attempt (not allways succesfull) to match colour with the surrounding American colour.
The surrounding in the fuselage is overpainting of the US national insignia bars.

Also, this is a composite airframe having wings from an other plane.

And as there were discussion about the prop. Exhibition blades are made fronm glass.fibre.

Cheers,

AaCee
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2012, 08:15:43 PM »

Hi,

here http://www.16va.be/19_gviap_eng_part1.html I found interesting info about 19 GIAP and:


No. "16" with the different number layout and re-painted(?) tail rudder, without painetd tail tip and different color of propeller blades. Note fuselage red star with thin white outline.

Seems Airacobras in 19 GIAP (at least no. "12" and "16") were repainted within their carrier or there were old Airacobras replaced by new ones using the same board number.

regards,
     66misos
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Pascal
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« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2013, 11:54:36 PM »

Hi,

have you any idea what colors were used to overpaint RAF roundels on the fuselage/upperwings (green AMT-4?) and underwings (blue AMT-7?) ?

This question is still waiting for an answer... I'd like to know your idea about it.

My friend returned to the MAE in Le Bourget, and has verified the Yak-3's 25 number. It is well silver, as KL said. Thank you Konstantin, your knowledge is so precious for us.

Pascal
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