Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /membri/massimotessitori/sovietwarplanes/board/Sources/Load.php(225) : runtime-created function on line 3
Victory marks on Pokryshkin's P-39 "100"
Sovietwarplanes
March 28, 2024, 04:11:57 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This forum replaces the old sovietwarplanes.com whose domain has expired in January 2017. It has been updated with the posts of the year 2016.
The new location of the site 'Sovietwarplanes pages' is at http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12
  Print  
Author Topic: Victory marks on Pokryshkin's P-39 "100"  (Read 136880 times)
Graham Boak
Full Member
***
Posts: 138


« Reply #135 on: January 19, 2014, 12:03:12 AM »

The centre of gravity is variable and will be close to the quarter-chord line of the wing. but somewhat forward.   I suspect that what we are seeing is a reference point, from which the cg can be located at different load conditions.
Logged
66misos
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1598

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


WWW
« Reply #136 on: January 20, 2014, 09:29:19 AM »

Hi,

here are updates profiles - nose cannon and wing guns have covering/protective pipes and some dirty was added:


This is profile how it could look at the end of July, when the plane was 2 months older and more "used" - dirty, weathering and exhaust stains were added. Olive Drab is a bit more brownish. Pokryshkin had 6 more victories that time, so additional 6 victories could be painted. However, there is no publicly known photo clearly showing this plane with 36 victory stars. For more see http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1367.msg13325#msg13325


Regards,
     66misos
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 03:40:40 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6528


« Reply #137 on: January 20, 2014, 03:46:31 PM »

Hi Misos,
I like this work very much.
About victory starlets: is the most of them empty inside the white outline, or painted with a darker shade of red?
Regards
Massimo
Logged
66misos
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1598

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


WWW
« Reply #138 on: January 20, 2014, 05:19:07 PM »

Hi Massimo,

IMHO they firstly sprayed or brushed 30 white stencil-like outlined victory stars over the mask (white line is not solid but interrupted) and then first 6 stars repainted - red inside and solid white outline. That could be reason why those first 6 stars are significantly more apparent than rest 24 white stencil-like outlined victory stars on the another photo.





Regards,
     66misos
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 05:49:08 PM by 66misos » Logged

KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #139 on: January 20, 2014, 06:06:01 PM »

Hi Misos,
your first profile is even better now, but the second profile is a guess.  6 additional stars are a guess, there is no proof they have ever been painted.  IMHO, it is better to refrain from guessing because it can compromise good job you did with the first profile.

Exhaust staining is based on the photo showing Pokrishkin's P-39 with its nose propped.  For what I know, this photo hasn't been dated - some, like Zlobin, think that it was taken in May 1943, others think it was taken in July 1943.  So, exhaust staining may have been present in May 1943 when 30 victory stars were painted.  Actually, the staining marks are quite pronounced on that photo:



The centre of gravity is variable and will be close to the quarter-chord line of the wing. but somewhat forward.   I suspect that what we are seeing is a reference point, from which the cg can be located at different load conditions.

Thanks for the explanation Graham.  That's how I remember it - around the quarter-chord line of the wing....   Smiley

Cheers,
KL
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 07:41:29 PM by KL » Logged
Flavio
Newbie
*
Posts: 42


« Reply #140 on: January 20, 2014, 11:13:31 PM »

Hi 66misos,

I agree with KL, the second profile is too much speculative, moreover there are still not enough confirmations that this plane with 30 kill markings  was P-39 ?42-9004?. In my opinion this plane, had 6 kill markings already painted on when the official photo was made, and probably for this reason it was used as background. At this point it is very likely that were added the white border markings to enphasize propaganda purposes. Pokryshkin wasn't in favor of "kill" markings, and if this plane is really "42-9004", when Pokryshkin chose it as personal plane some weeks later, the kill markings, if still there, were probably overpainted or, at best, left there without any other embellishments.

If you want I can suggest you some improvements to your profile in the cockpit area; take as reference a detail of the cockpit of a profile I am working on. You can note the N-3 gun sight with sight head designed by Bell, the internal rear view mirror fixed on the top of the bullet proof glass, the small window on the windscreen...and a Pokryshkin figure...what a shame a plane without pilot! Grin

Flavio

Logged
66misos
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1598

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


WWW
« Reply #141 on: January 21, 2014, 10:30:07 AM »

Hi,

KL, I agree with you, that "July" profile is speculation, I wrote that 6 stars could be (not "was") painted. Anyhow, I will cancel them from profile.
Regarding exhaust stains - photo of P-39 with its nose propped shows evident exhast stains starting somewhere in mid of exhaust, e.g. somewhere bellow/behind 3rd exhaust pipe.
Photo with Pokryshkin standing on the wing does not show any signs of exhaust stains around 3rd exhaust pipe. It was quite new plane with possibly only several flights in mid May, delivered to SU (Abadan) in wooden crate as was standard via Southern way, not flown like those ones via Northern way. IMHO, those photos were taken in different time.

Flavio, thank you for your advise/help Smiley I will make new front part of the cockpit using your picture as a reference. It is quite simple, some basic shapes and lines with simple shadows. But to paint the pilot Huh I am not able to do that, it is too far behind my abilities to make it on computer.
You wrote that you work on profile. It looks very very nice. OD paint has some "X" structure, apparent behind the door. Is it hand painted or is it make on computer? I am really curious on it.

Do have anybody, please, better photo of these stencils?

They are quite apparent on photos. That brighter one seems to be yellow (or red?) while those two looks black.

Regards,
    66misos
Logged

Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6528


« Reply #142 on: January 21, 2014, 01:18:59 PM »

Hi Flavio,
it's a very beautiful detail for a profile. How will you publish your work?
Hi Misos,
if you can't paint a pilot, you can look for a photo that can be cutten, colorized and put under the canopy layer to be covered with the glazing reflection. I can try to help you, if you need.
Regards
Massimo
Logged
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #143 on: January 21, 2014, 06:44:09 PM »

Regarding exhaust stains - photo of P-39 with its nose propped shows evident exhast stains starting somewhere in mid of exhaust, e.g. somewhere bellow/behind 3rd exhaust pipe.
Photo with Pokryshkin standing on the wing does not show any signs of exhaust stains around 3rd exhaust pipe. It was quite new plane with possibly only several flights in mid May, delivered to SU (Abadan) in wooden crate as was standard via Southern way, not flown like those ones via Northern way. IMHO, those photos were taken in different time.

Zlobin made quite a convincing case to proove that both photos were taken at the same time...
It looks to me that the nose of the plane which is photographed with Pokryshkin standing on its wing is also propped up.



You should first level the horizon on this photo and then campare Pokrishkin's posture with the posture of this pilot:



Photo of the P-39 No "100" is heavily retouched:  Exhaust pipes are definitively retouched, staining is probably somewhat "enhanced".



HTH,
KL
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 06:47:39 PM by KL » Logged
Flavio
Newbie
*
Posts: 42


« Reply #144 on: January 21, 2014, 11:14:25 PM »

Hi Massimo and 66misos,
 
thank you for your comment.
I enjoy doing my profiles just for fun and I never thought to publish them; moreover I have not a powerful PC so all my work are in low resolution?
Regarding ?pilots?, Massimo exactly describes what I do: I start from a photo and I colorized it. I have not a rule, and doing low resolution profiles helps to hide a lot of details/problems. From my experience the most difficult thing is to find the right photo; in fact it has to be taken at the same level of the pilot (almost all the photos showing pilots seated on the cockpit were taken from below), and it has to be a 100% "side view" photo: the shoulder of the pilot is in the foreground while the front and back of the body are not visible. If you pay attention at these characteristics you can find that very few such photos are available on the net.
 
Please Massimo, can you share with us your technique on colorize the pilots?
 
Flavio


...OD paint has some "X" structure, apparent behind the door. Is it hand painted or is it make on computer? I am really curious on it.


The "X" structure is apparent only, probably made by PC during the creation of the jpg file. Unfortunately I have no information about the stencils...
Logged
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6528


« Reply #145 on: January 22, 2014, 06:26:56 AM »

Hi Flavio,
low resolution, you say? Looks good to my eye. How many pixels is each image wide?
About the colorizing technique: I suggest to save the image as .psd file, then add one more layer and set it on 'color': it will give to the image the hue and saturation of your choosen color, but the darkness of the original photo.
Then I paint (with free brush or with masking) the coloured areas on this new layer.
I can switch it on or off during the work to check how the original appears, or can turn it temporarily to 'normal' to see if it is compact enough or pick the color or select an area with the magic wand.
I can also reduce its covering power, while the base layer (the photo) can be altered with 'color balance' to make highlights more orangish and shadows more bluish, a thing that can traspare through the color covering when its opacity is below 100% and gives better the idea of the yellowish sun light.
At the end, I preserve the .psd file for future modifications, but save a copy with one layer with the wanted resolution in .jpg format; this can be published on the web, or inserted into a multilayer profile.
Regards
Massimo
Logged
66misos
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1598

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


WWW
« Reply #146 on: January 22, 2014, 08:26:35 AM »

Hi,

Massimo, Flavio, thanks for offered help and "how to" description. I also thought about coloring real photo, but I never did it before. I will try it in the future. Now I want firstly to make also templates for the top and bottom views.

KL, it is all about opinions whether those 2 photos are from one or two different events, see my post #115 in this thread. Unfortunately there is no hard evidence known to me, could be also as you wrote. From profile point of view it does not matter - 30 victory stars in both cases, the difference seems to be only in level of weathering, fading etc.
I updated both profiles in my Reply #136 above.

Regards,
        66misos

« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 03:42:27 PM by 66misos » Logged

Flavio
Newbie
*
Posts: 42


« Reply #147 on: January 22, 2014, 09:14:32 PM »

low resolution, you say? Looks good to my eye. How many pixels is each image wide?

Hi Massimo,

the resolution of my profiles is the same of that one of detail posted (400 dpi); but usually I work at 300dpi, otherwise the profile becomes too big and the memory of my pc goes in troubles.

Thank you for your suggestion, but if I am correct, psd is the file of Adobe Photoshop...not for my PC Embarrassed

Flavio
Logged
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6528


« Reply #148 on: January 23, 2014, 08:54:50 PM »

Hi Flavio, 400 dpi is a good resolution, enough for paper printing. Photos are usually published at 300 dpi.
What is the program you use? Does it allow to use layers?
Hi Misos, you have made a great step in quality, I hope to see your other drawings soon.
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 09:14:54 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #149 on: February 07, 2014, 09:19:30 PM »

Hi Misos,
back to the photo from the beginning of this thread:



White staining under the exhausts doesn't mean that this Airacobra was more "used" or weathered.
The staining was caused by the Tetra-ethyl-lead that was added to the 100 octane gasoline.  During the combustion lead was oxidised to white (PbCO3)2?Pb(OH)2.

White Lead is the chemical compound (PbCO3)2?Pb(OH)2. It was formerly used as an ingredient for Lead paint and a cosmetic called Venetian Ceruse, because its opaque quality made it a good pigment. White Lead has been the principal white of classical European oil painting. Historically, white Lead was produced by the Dutch process. White Lead occurs naturally as a mineral, in which context it is known as hydrocerussite. It is used in making paint with good external weathering characteristics.

from:  http://www.gravitagroup.com/lead-pigments.asp

Apparently the white lead staining was easy to wash off the planes...

White staining means that Pokrishkin was lucky enough to somehow get 100 octane fuel which not available to other pilots who had to fly on 87 octane gasoline...

HTH,
KL
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!