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My 1/48 Ilyusha...
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Author Topic: My 1/48 Ilyusha...  (Read 11609 times)
learstang
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« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2012, 01:13:39 AM »

Poor Peter!  We'll probably be asking you change the whole thing before we're through!  Actually, though, I think the changes we've suggested so far should be doable without too much fuss, and I think Konstantin's correct about the late-war stars and the rudder.  I rather like having the number on the port wing as it's so unusual.  Again, it's easy for us to say, as it's your model, but at least we're not suggesting you repaint the entire model (you know though, it would look better in brown/green...).

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2012, 11:49:27 AM »

Hi,
Quote
1.  white line on the upper part of the tailfin leading edge is very suspicious, could be a reflection or retoush.  Other planes had only white triangle in the lower part of the tailfin
Should it be a reflex, it would be present on the other planes too, they are under the same light and perspective. The photo of the first plane is perfectly clear, with a dark tail under a light background, why should them have made a so rough retouch?


Quote
2.  there was number 25 on the left wing, same as on the plane number 12 from same unit
There are many photos both of n.25 and of other planes of the same flight, and none shows numbers on the upper wing apart for n.12. Numbering on the wings uppersurface wasn't a standard practise. Or, is there any view where one can see anything vaguely resembling to a number on their wings?
I don't see any reasons to introduce an unusual characteristic that is clearly not visible in photos of the real plane. Else, one could equally paint the arrow and the slogans on all the planes of the unit, including n.12.

Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2012, 06:50:58 PM »

1.   tailfin line is not white, or at least not the same colour as the triangle.

  

Other planes did not have line on top of the triangle:



2.   In that series of photos, only two planes have numbers: No 12 and No 25.  Numbers are absent on other planes.

There is only one photo of the plane No 12 and two photos of the plane No 25. Upper wing surface and number on it are clearly visible only on No 12 photo.  There are no clear photos of  plane?s No 25 wing upper surface so analogy with No 12 is justified.

If you have a photo that clearly shows that there wasn?t a number on No 25 port wing, please show it to us.

3.   I hope we agree that stars had thin red outline, although the outline is not visible on photos.

Cheers,
KL    
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 06:55:36 PM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2012, 11:38:05 PM »

Hi,

Quote
tailfin line is not white, or at least not the same colour as the triangle.
I see, it's somewhat darker. I wonder if it could be yellow. The photo shows also that the thin lines on the trim are lighter than the star, perhaps they aren't red as usually thought, or at least not the same red.

Quote
If you have a photo that clearly shows that there wasn?t a number on No 25 port wing, please show it to us.
This is a detail of the high resolution scan blurried to reduce the effect of the grain and darkened to increase the contrast. The camo is visible, but no white numbers. They should be as light as those on the fuselage, if not lighter.

A small image of poor quality, but viewed from more above, is visible at
http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=705.0.
I would give for sure enough that there is not any white number there.
Quote
3.   I hope we agree that stars had thin red outline, although the outline is not visible on photos.
Of course, it was a standard.

Another thing:

On this photo the first plane is strangely dark and poor of contrast, but the second has a visible camo, and the third one some number on the fuselage. Too few for color profiles, unfortunately.

Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2012, 12:58:17 AM »

IMHO, those photos can't be used as evidence that there wasn't a number.  All those in-flight photos only show that, in given lighting conditions, horizontal surfaces (like wings) reflected much more light than vertical surfaces (fuselage sides or tailfin).  On all photos wing upper surfaces are much brighter than fuselage sides.

Glare from the horizontal wing surface could obscure white number...  In addition, when laying flat, number's surface is reduced and it blends with the glare easier.
On the photomontage you mentioned, both wings are as bright as the tailfin triangle:



BTW, my presence on this forum started with this plane,  Grin
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Kukuruznik
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« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2012, 07:33:02 AM »

Oh, man!

Next one I make will be either South front brown/brown, AII Light green/AII dark green/Cyan or an all-black La-7...

Seriously, thanks for all the input - just I shame I didn't have it a year ago... I think that there clearly is a light leading edge on the tail, but you may be right in it being yellow. Then again, you may be wrong - photo interpretation being what it is... Red star outlines is probably correct, will see if I have the energy to find new ones, and removing the old without harming the clear coats.

The number on the left wing is a cool feature I have never seen anywhere else - this will probably be added even if I agree with Massimo that there is no proof of it in the photos.

I will see when i get any motivation for fiddling with this one back - right now I have a quick, OOB build of an Eduard La-7 to take care of. Maybe with just a little detailing of the cockpit. And corrected mountain eagle emblem. And a painted red arrow. And maybe some photoetch stuff in the gear bays.

/P
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2012, 08:30:07 AM »

Hi Konstantin, ,
Quote
Glare from the horizontal wing surface could obscure white number...  In addition, when laying flat, number's surface is reduced and it blends with the glare easier.

Glare can lighten a surface, not darken it. You can see that the surface is darker than the less lightened writing on the sides. In my idea, the detail of the upper wing isn't bad, it let see the upper position and landing light and some of the camouflage.
Besides an unusual characteristic should be assumed only if positively proven or, in case of doubt,  if its absence is uncompatible with what the photo show.

Hi Peter,
Quote
Seriously, thanks for all the input - just I shame I didn't have it a year ago... I think that there clearly is a light leading edge on the tail, but you may be right in it being yellow. Then again, you may be wrong - photo interpretation being what it is... Red star outlines is probably correct, will see if I have the energy to find new ones, and removing the old without harming the clear coats.

The number on the left wing is a cool feature I have never seen anywhere else - this will probably be added even if I agree with Massimo that there is no proof of it in the photos.

I will see when i get any motivation for fiddling with this one back - right now I have a quick, OOB build of an Eduard La-7 to take care of. Maybe with just a little detailing of the cockpit. And corrected mountain eagle emblem. And a painted red arrow. And maybe some photoetch stuff in the gear bays.
I generally avoid to put my hands on an already finished model, it's nice as it is and there is the risk to ruin it in some way.
La-7 of Eduard should be nice, I've one partly done. But why don't you want to paint it all black? None will ever proof that it's wrong, in absence of photos.

Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2012, 05:48:43 PM »

Peter and Massimo, I know what you mean about redoing an already finished model.  I'm always afraid that halfway through redoing it, I'll get bored with it and stop, so instead of having a finished, if slightly inaccurate model, I now have an unfinished model (to add to my ever-growing pile).  I normally only "fix" a model if it's something minor and easily doable, like removing the VV-1 gunsight and aiming lines from an early IL-2.  I have an Li-2 I need to redo as it needs the I-16-type engine shutters, external stiffeners around the dorsal turret, it's all-white so I should repaint the undersurfaces blue, etc.  Now my excuse for not redoing it is since Amodel are going to be coming out with their Li-2's, shouldn't I expend that energy on doing them correctly (the Li-2NB is the one I'm going to get)?  Happy Victory Day everyone!  За Победу!

Regards,

Jason
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 05:55:07 PM by learstang » Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

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KL
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« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2012, 05:58:49 PM »

Quote
Glare from the horizontal wing surface could obscure white number...  In addition, when laying flat, number's surface is reduced and it blends with the glare easier.

Glare can lighten a surface, not darken it. You can see that the surface is darker than the less lightened writing on the sides. In my idea, the detail of the upper wing isn't bad, it let see the upper position and landing light and some of the camouflage.
Besides an unusual characteristic should be assumed only if positively proven or, in case of doubt,  if its absence is uncompatible with what the photo show.

OK, I didn't use word "obscure" properly - I meant the white number is hidden by the glare.

- Sunlight is white.
- Glare is condition when surface reflects most of the sunlight
- Conclusion:  glare would hide white number!

What you see as a faintly visible light gray camouflage field was in reality dark gray, almost black, AMT-12.  How do you expect to see relatively small white number?

Suggestion for Peter:
why don't you make an experiment - apply a temporary white decal on the port wing and try to simulate conditions seen on the b/w photo.  Same angle, equivalent distance (few meters), same lighting, same grainy film.  This may help to solve the mistery.

Cheers,
KL
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GoNzA
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« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2012, 05:18:16 AM »

Beautiful work!

A little large chip in the blades of the propeller, and the rest - very good!
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Best regards,
Anatoliy
DoctorB
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« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2012, 01:36:38 AM »

Peter,
Congratulations on the completion of the Shturmovik! The model looks very impressive, and the story of the cancelled sortie is quite convincing, too:)
I would like the russian caption to read something like "Let's get the f**k out of here" in "correct" "Mat" idom. Would that be something like "Pashli, pashli, mat' voyu"?


As for the idiomatic Russian, there could be at least several ways to say it. These are few examples, from the normal everyday language to the least approriate one:
1) Уходим отсюда! (uhOdim atsYUda!)
2) Линяем (Рвем когти) отсюда к чертовой матери! (linYAem (rvyom kOkti) atsYUda k chIOrtavaj mAteri!)
3) Уебываем отсюда нахер (нахуй)! (uYObyvaem atsYUda nAher (nAhuj)!) Regional variation of the first word would be уЯбываем (uYAbyvaem ka vsem chirtYAm!), for example.
Capitalized letters indicate accentuations.
I apologize if any Russian- speaking member of the Forum got hurt while reading it:)
Happy modelling!
Kind regards,
Boris

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