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AM Il-2
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Author Topic: AM Il-2  (Read 47117 times)
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2012, 12:44:12 PM »

Hi Michel,
I think that the 6 is silver, because its darkness changes by much in the available photos. Note that the stars have a white outline, on which the white camouflage is overposed.
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2012, 05:44:35 PM »

Michel, it should probably be a silver or white "6".  I need to change the bort on my model - I did it in 1/72nd scale, using the nice Smer kit.  The decal sheet actually had it in both yellow and silver, but I chose yellow instead.  As you might have read on this site, yellow probably wasn't used that much for Soviet markings because it was the Axis identifying colour on the Eastern Front, and there was always the possibility of friendly fire if you used too much yellow on your VVS aeroplane.  Below are in-flight photographs of this aeroplane.

Regards,

Jason



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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon
B_Realistic
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« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2012, 08:19:08 PM »

Jason,

I saw indeed your Il-2 in 1/72nd scale that's the reason why I asked it.
The only thing is that I've got to make the number 6 itself.
So I see how to do that.
Are those numbers normally the same shape?

Michel
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learstang
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« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2012, 08:47:20 PM »

Glad to hear that my model inspired you!  Regarding the borts, unfortunately they seem to vary from polk (regiment) to polk.  I don't believe these were ever done at the factory, but were painted once they reached their polk.  There doesn't seem to be any one standard.  You really have to look at individual photographs of the aeroplane you wish to do.  Of course, the borts on a single aeroplane were painted in the same style on each side.  Some may have been from templates, whereas some were obviously hand-painted.

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon
KL
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« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2012, 09:06:48 PM »

All four photos of Borodin's "silver? 6" from http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1001.0






I can't see any evidences of the "white outlined red star".  IMHO there were plain red stars with no outlines (as per 1941 recommendations).
Definitelly field applied washable MK-7 on wings and rear fuselage.  Real problem here is the transition between white MK-7 and green-black nose - it is not clear on photos...  I would try with sharp border at least on wings and with cockpit framing....

HTH,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2012, 08:18:48 AM »

The plane has metal wings, so it was built by Z.18. This factory painted white outlines on all the stars of its Il-2. If the white outline isn't evident on photos, probably it is hidden by the winter white paint that can be more invasive of what is represented on the drawing.
The star under the wings of planes built in this factory can show the same white border, but I am not sure it was on all. The possible alternative could be a black outline.
Regards
Massimo
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B_Realistic
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« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2012, 08:50:01 AM »

@Jason,
well I just have to make a template for it. I'm not able to paint this by hand and make something of it that looks like a number '6'. Cheesy

@KL,
thanks for the pictures but doesn't it be merely guessing to use a sharp border on the wings? If I understand it correctly what you mean of  course. Cheesy
You probably would be right that the MK-7 would have had a sharp border in the beginning but as you can see on the fuselage it's all faded and weathered which results in a non sharp bordered outline between the MK-7 and the green/black camo.

@Massimo,
I'll leave my white outlined stars under the wings on. Thanks for clearing that out.
And it does mean that all the other stars also have white outlines?

Thanks for the input.

Michel
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2012, 12:15:29 PM »

Hi Michel,
I think that the white on the half fuselage was sprayed with a very soft line. Probably it was repainted by brush close to the stars and on the sides, possibly covering the original white outline and arriving to the red.
About the stars under the wings, I strongly suggest to change them. It is very possible that they had white outline, but very thin and without the red outline. That type of star was introduced around August 1943.
Regards
Massimo
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B_Realistic
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« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2012, 02:32:58 PM »

Massimo,

Damn and I thought I didn't have to change them. Undecided
I see how to arrange that...
So I need a red star which has to cover the red outline.

Michel
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KL
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« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2012, 07:23:54 PM »

IF this was an Il-2 with metal wings, Red Stars were lake this:




On wings, close to the fuselage, border between white MK-7 and black/green camouflage was a line - it wasn't sprayed or "leopard skin" (as seen on Jason's model)



Rear fuselage was sprayed - transition to unprayed forward fuselage is wide and gradual like on Massimo's profile.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 07:30:09 PM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2012, 07:44:41 PM »

Hi,
it was certainly a metal wing, because wooden wings didn't have mass balances at their tip.
Yes, the thin white outline around the stars is characteristic of the production of Z.18. Good photo.
IMHO, the line on the wing  of the plane inflight is the shadow of the fuselage.
Regards
Massimo
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B_Realistic
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« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2012, 08:01:11 PM »

Concerning the MK-7 on the wings it's guessing how it was applied on the wings and how far? Huh
Because I'm just wondering how you can see how far the MK-7 was applied.
You can see only pictures from the side and not from the top.
I'm not a pro like you all...
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learstang
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« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2012, 08:13:23 PM »

I agree with Massimo; that line on the wing looks like a shadow.  I'll admit my camouflage on the wings is somewhat conjectural, but I made it appear to be a worn/mixed transition from the MK-7 to the black/green camouflage based on the appearance of the fuselage, where this appears to be the case.

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon
learstang
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« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2012, 08:23:42 PM »

Concerning the MK-7 on the wings it's guessing how it was applied on the wings and how far? Huh
Because I'm just wondering how you can see how far the MK-7 was applied.
You can see only pictures from the side and not from the top.
I'm not a pro like you all...

Michel, if you look at all the photographs Konstantin helpfully posted, I think you can see that the aft wingroot was white, but if you look at the leading edges of the wings, the front of the undercarriage pods seem to have the black/green camouflage.  From this, it seems that Massimo's and my reconstruction of the topside camouflage is plausible, at least.  It's hard to to tell the exact pattern for the black/green camouflage, so my interpretation is something of a guess.  One thing to remember is that these photographs may very well have been taken at different times, so the weathering of the MK-7 would have been different.

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon
KL
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« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2012, 12:09:44 AM »

IMHO, the line on the wing  of the plane inflight is the shadow of the fuselage.
I agree with Massimo; that line on the wing looks like a shadow.  I'll admit my camouflage on the wings is somewhat conjectural

There is a shadow - it's black area close to fuselage.  Then there is a gray band = green/black camouflage.  Some 0.5m of the wing trailing edge is left camouflaged in green/black.

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