AM Il-2

[B_Realistic]

KL,



To make things clear.

1. shadow
2. green/black
3. MK-7

Is this what you mean?

Michel

[Massimo Tessitori]

I think that 2 is the white part on shadow, while 1 looks the black-green part. The photo is taken against the sunlight, the plane is dark on a shining background.
Regards
Massimo

[KL]

1. shadow
2. green/black
3. MK-7

Is this what you mean?
Michel

Yes Michel, that?s exactly what I meant!

KL

[KL]

I think that 2 is the white part on shadow, while 1 looks the black-green part.

If 2 is white, entire wing root is white and Jason's model and your top view are not likely.
If 1 is black/green, where does wing MK-7 start?

Massimo, on your top view, black/green should be extended to the wing trailing edge.  It's a minor modification...  and if you want everything to fit, you will make border between MK-7 and black/green on wings as a line, not as a gradual/sprayed transition... 



HTH,
KL

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,
I see, the drawing is not convincing in that wingroots. It would be good to understand better which is the real shadow, and what is the influence of fumes on this part.
Regards
Massimo

[B_Realistic]

KL,

can you make correction to Massimo's profile view of the Il-2 how you think the line from the MK-7 needs to be?
Then everything becomes more clear.
I think that how Massimo represents the line is more mottling due to weathering conditions.
But it must be more like a line.

Michel

[Massimo Tessitori]

I think that the white layer, very soft, should start to the side of the windshield and come down to the wing.  1 is the effect of exhaust fumes and 2 is the shadow on the white. Probably the white is more worn on the left side, where the pilot enters the canopy.
Regards
Massimo

[KL]

I think that the white layer, very soft, should start to the side of the windshield and come down to the wing.  1 is the effect of exhaust fumes and 2 is the shadow on the white. Probably the white is more worn on the left side, where the pilot enters the canopy.

No 1 is shadow.  Similar shadow is visible on tailplane - this can not be effect of exaust fumes.



modifications to Massimo's drawing are minimal - extend black/green to wing trailing edge and make MK-7 border on wings as a line.
On the port side, sprayed MK-7 border is pulled slightly more towards the tail.



Hope it's clear now...  
KL

Question:
What do you think, what was the reason to leave forward fuselage and cockpit canopy on this Il-2 in its original black/green camouflage??
  

[learstang]

Konstantin, it may have been to break up the outline of the aeroplane, and/or to camouflage it over incompletely snow-covered terrain, although I would think white bands or splotches would have been better for that.  Perhaps the tarpaulin used over the nose during winter wore away the MK-7 so much that in this case they didn't even bother to apply it.  The same could go for the wingroots, which we know became heavily weathered, especially the port wingroot.  Hmmm, you may be correct about your interpretation of the MK-7 coverage.  You make a good case - I may have to repaint this model (a little).

Regards,

Jason

[KL]

IMHO, Borodin's Il-2 was one of the planes that were only partially painted in temp white MK-7:





How white protective colour worked can be found in 1943 Il-2 maintenance manual, avialable on the web:
http://mikro-mir.com/?start=88

KL

[KL]

1 is the effect of exhaust fumes...

Massimo, check your Il-2 photos:  in general staining is limited to the area above exhaust pipes, rarely it extrends under the canopy.  I could not find a single case where staining would extend all way to wing trailing edge.  Shturmovik wasn't the dirtiest plane ever... 

Following is one of the worse cases of exhaust staining:



note black/green rear fuselage attached to a plane painted in white MK-7 ... almost everything was posible... 

[B_Realistic]

KL,

this makes it very clear.
Thanks for running the extra mile for this.
And I love those extra pictures.
And many thanks for the link about how the MK-7 was applied.
Concerning why they left the forward fuselage in the original camo I'm not sure. There are other examples on Mig-3's or La-5's where they do this on the whole plane. Maybe they hadn't enough MK-7 so they used it only the aft because the forward section like the cockpit, wing roots and engine will weather rapidly?

Michel

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,
this half-white n.5 is very interesting, new for me. It worths a profile, no doubt. Looks made by joining pieces of two planes.

To paint in white the rear part of the plane only was usual enough. It could also be made to reduce the increase in drag, because the white paint was rough and chalky and they could have avoided to put it where the limit layer of airflow wasn't thick enough to minimize the increase of drag.

About exhaust stains: they arrived to the tail and rear fuselage, even if more blurried that on the side of the nose.


I think that the drawing has to be modified, even if I am not sure about th interpretation of the shadow. I'll make some compromise.
I wonder if the profiles should include stains too.

Regards
Massimo

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,
what about this drawing? I've modified the white paint to cover the outlines of the stars too.

Regards
Massimo

[B_Realistic]

One another interesting remark is the darker spot at the underside of the rear fuselage just behind the wings.
I've noticed that before. I'm not sure if that's a shadow?