Arctic Red

[erussell]

Was the red used on Li-2's in the Arctic a standard VVS colour?
I have seen references to "International Orange" but I am not sure about that.
There is a reasonable reference here but it is silent on exact shade beyond casting doubt on the lurid pink in one example.
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/Li-2/arctic-lisunov.php

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,
there is a drawing with orange panels here
http://crimso.msk.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft20674-1.htm#pics
perhaps you could find the original text.
Some Pe-8s too of Aviaartika are drawn as orange in bibliography, and they appear in photos aside Li-2s.
If you find something, please let me know.
Regards
Massimo

[erussell]

there is a drawing with orange panels here

N-328 appears also in the reference I quoted but it appears more red (there is a citation in the article where it was derived from - Modelist Konstuktur and Krilya Rodinu magazines) although it is described as "red-orange" and is also in the Amodel colour instructions as International Orange.
Was this "International Orange" colour in use in the USSR at the time?

[KL]

As usual, I would not rely on Pilawskii  
In this case he clearly cites his sources - antiquated "Modelist Konstruktor" and "Krila Rodini" magazines - good job!

Pilawskii's profile:


1999 Mir Aviatsiyi magazine, Text by Kotelnikov, profiles by Tepsurkaev:
http://www.polarpost.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=17670&mode=view

Recent Maslov's profile, 1941 Li-2:
http://www.polarpost.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=7694&mode=view

Photos:
http://www.polarpost.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=548&mode=view


I believe Maslov!  N-328 is a wartime C-47, not Li-2 as Pilawskii suggests...
Colours - I think that "Aviaarktika" orange is morelikely than red..

Everything you want to know about Polar aviation is at: http://www.polarpost.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=20

HTH,
KL

[learstang]

Konstantin, there's a problem with your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th links.  The last photograph is nice, though; I like that TB-3 in the background.  If I could ever get my hands on a (cheap) ICM TB-3, and get up the courage to build it, one of the Arctic TB-3's (Antarctic also?) would be a nice (and difficult!) conversion.

Regards,

Jason

[erussell]

Well, Konstantin has thrown a "cat amongst my pigeons". That's a radically different look to the suggested colour scheme in the Amodel kit! I do like it though!
The polarpost forum is very interesting and I'm most grateful for the link. Google translation is quite good on this site.
So... I need to go through all the polarpost Li-2 listings and pictures and come up with a suitable one as i don't want a C-47 or DC-3. It's difficult from the photos to decide between Li-2 and C-47 but the Maslov drawing appears to have the single passenger door of a DC-3.
Any suggestions for a nice red-orange Arctic Li-2T scheme are most welcome.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Are these photos of N328 or of another plane? The first photos of the topic of the Russian forum are no longer visible.
Regards
Massimo

[K.Ingraham]

Might I suggest Akan's acrylic VVS red? It seems to have an orange tint to it to my eye, with sunfading and blasting from prop-driven snow & ice srystals, a shift to other tones from primarily red is quite plausible.
And, to my initial annoyance, Akan included a bottle of red in every VVS set-now buying those might be starting to pay off.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,
there is something about orange for arctic planes and blue for civilian planes here.

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/color-table.html

There are links to museal exhibits, but the interpretation of colors is a guess based on photographs. Those colors are described as nitro, but it's likely that an oil based version did exist.
Regards
Massimo

[KL]

I don?t think there was any special red colour for polar aviation.  ?Red-orange? is Pilavskii?s fantasy ? same as ?factory green? and other fictional colours.   

In reality, orange and orange/blue were colours typical for polar aviation:






Pe-8 model

Museum Saleharda


modern Mi-8


HTH,
KL

[learstang]

Nice pictures, Konstantin, thank you!  I love that TB-3, but that would be a big conversion job.  Maybe Amodel will come out with it!  I know it won't happen, but I can dream.

Regards,

Jason

[erussell]

Great pictures Konstantin, really impressive display of orange there.... lots of modeling inspiration! Thanks.
I assume the Museum Saleharda plane is a DC-3?
Looking at the polar aviation site it seems the Li-2's were the exception to the orange rule and that most of them retained their green/blue colours.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi, really nice drawings.
The plane exposed is a Li-2, distinguishable for many details, in particular for the V-shaped landing gear rear strut and the cylindrical cowling.
I like late-type TB-3 very much, unfortunately the corrugated skin discourages any conversion on those kits.
Regards
Massimo

[erussell]

Ah yes, looking at larger images I see you are right - it's 7395(0?). Anyone like to put a service date on this aircraft and comment on whether it flew in the Arctic in this scheme? It looks different to most of them on the polar-aviation site but a good candidate for a model.

[K.Ingraham]

While not exactly on point for this thread, I think the collective participating wil find this new post on englishrussia interesting:
"This Douglas C-47-DL, serial number 42-32892, factory 9118 was deliver to the US Air Force on February 24th 1943. It was then handed to the USSR Air Force on 12th march 1943 under the lend-lease programme, where it was given the ID ?USSR-H-328′. It was sent to the 7th Arctic Aviation Regiment of the 1st Air Division.
According to order number OK/071 of April 16th 1943 it was enlisted by the Office of Polar Aviation to conduct ice reconnaissance. From October 22nd to November 1th 1943 it explored the Kara Sea under the command of the pilot, MA Titlova.
From 3th June to 24th July 1944 it made further sorties from bases in Anderme for further reconnaissance of the Kara Sea. In 1945 it was sent to the Chukotka Polar Air Arm where it was given the number A-3072.
One book describes the final fate of this aircraft.
?Emergency, Saturday April 13th 1947 in the area of the river Dudypty, North of the village Volochanka. Failure of the left engine. Successfully made a landing and sat for around twenty days, until discovered by the crew of F. Shatrova. 28 people survives, some with minor frostbite on their hands and face (mostly children). Commander Tyuikov, airborne radio operator Smirnov and seven passengers were missing ? they had gone in search of help in the snowy tundra and never returned.?

http://englishrussia.com/2012/07/23/russian-c-47-dakota-found-in-siberia/#more-105514

Also cross-posted in the lend-lease forum under the C-47 thread.