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Author Topic: Other bad painting  (Read 11636 times)
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2012, 07:06:11 PM »

 Hi,
I've modified the drawing, as you can see.
I'm still in doubt with the shades, because 7K and 4BO are scarcely contrasting and I don't think that they could have caused those strange differences in photos; I think that the colors should be more contrasting in hue and saturation. However, I've drawn it so.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2012, 07:47:22 PM »

I'm still in doubt with the shades, because 7K and 4BO are scarcely contrasting and I don't think that they could have caused those strange differences in photos; I think that the colors should be more contrasting in hue and saturation. However, I've drawn it so.

4BO and 6K were high contrast colours:  4BO was light yellowish olive green, 6K was maroon dark brown.

4BO was designed to replace previous "protective green" which appeared dark on photos.  4BO would appear as light gray on most types of film.  Goal was actually to produce paint that will look as close as possible to grass/folliage on different film types.

6K was supposed to break up green shapes, same as black in 1941 camouflage scheme.

7K was supposed to blend with dry earth and dry grass, maybe contrast with 4BO wasn't a goal.  Contrast between light brown 7K and dark brown 6K would be significant.

Why don't you try to replace black with dark brown?

Consider following details:
-  4BO was a base colour applied in factories
-   camouflage colours 6K and 7K were applied in the field
-   6K was supposed to cover 15-30% of the surface
-   7K was supposed to cover another 15-30% of the surface
 








from http://nemirov41.forum24.ru/?1-19-0-00000010-000-40-0


  
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 07:52:36 PM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2012, 10:59:40 PM »

Nice photos of tanks indeed.
The color on the photos looks black to me, and black was commonly utilized on planes. Maybe there is also some dark brown hidden there, but I can't distinguish it.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2012, 06:57:14 PM »



Hi Massimo,
this looks interesting, it would be even better with dk brown instead of black  Wink

The color on the photos looks black to me, and black was commonly utilized on planes. Maybe there is also some dark brown hidden there, but I can't distinguish it.

The colour could be dark brown as well.  You know that black AMT-6 on b/w photos may range from black to light gray.  Same with dark brown K6 - on some photos it looks black on other it could be any shade of gray.

The facts are:
-  this Il-2 was camouflaged during first few weeks of GPW to comply with June 1941 order
-  camouflage pattern has nothing in common with June 1941 drawing that was issued with the order
-  it's clearly 3-colour camouflage
-  tanks were camouflaged in 3-colour scheme in 1941.  Colours were 4BO, 6K and 7K

So, dark brown makes (some) sense...

Regards,
KL
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learstang
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« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2012, 10:12:06 PM »

Konstantin, should all the light green also be replaced by 7K (the AMT-1 "analogue")?  That would make for an interesting aeroplane and the colours would actually match the colours used in the computer flight simulator games Birds of Prey and War Thunder.  I've been hounding the programmers to change them to the more likely black/green for a couple of years now, with no success.  Hopefully they won't see this thread and say, "See, we were correct!".  Of course even if dark brown, light brown, and green were used on a few single-seaters, they have it as the standard camouflage for all their single-seaters (and their arrows).

Regards,

Jason
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 12:09:44 AM by learstang » Logged

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KL
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« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2012, 10:53:26 PM »

I would limit light brown 7K and dark brown 6K after the high contrast isert (probably taken with some filter which changed yellow Me-109 band in dk gray)



white paches will be light brown, black patches will be dark brown.  Both brown colours would remain within their prescribed 15-30% of the surface.  the rest would be green.
The key is probably to understand what filter was used and how it affected 3 colours.

Regards,
KL 

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KL
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« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2012, 01:52:35 AM »

I would limit light brown 7K and dark brown 6K after the high contrast isert (probably taken with some filter which changed yellow Me-109 band in dk gray)

white paches will be light brown, black patches will be dark brown.  Both brown colours would remain within their prescribed 15-30% of the surface.  the rest would be green.
The key is probably to understand what filter was used and how it affected 3 colours.

IMHO, something like this:

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learstang
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« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2012, 04:31:49 AM »

Now that does look good.  I like that!  I want one!

Regards,

Jason
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2012, 10:46:21 PM »

Hi Konstantin,
I am not fully convinced of the idea, because black bands apper so dark that can't be darker in both photos, included that where both the colors of the patches appear very light. Dark brown should be comparable to the color of the background, that should be AE-19f. I don't think that they have completely overpainted a so good camouflage color.
The reason because the background of the nose appears lighter than the plane on the background is unclear, I wonder if it's simply more faded.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2012, 12:23:17 AM »

I agree that plane wasn't completely overpainted with 4BO.  More I look and think about this, there wasn't any 4BO...  Why would they waste paint and time to repaint green with very similar green.  Those two were different in theory, A-19f was decodable, 4BO nondecodable, but in the field they would look too close...

Anyway, I think now that there is only one green, i.e. original, factory A-19f.

Dark brown 6K should look dark gray on b/w photos. on some (more contrast) photos it does look black.
Finally, there is a posibility that two dark paints were used: black and dark brown

Only two posibilities:
- 3-colour scheme: A-19f, 6K and 7K
- 3 and a half scheme: A-19f, 6K, 7K and black

regards,
KL
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 12:39:18 AM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2012, 10:05:09 PM »

Another bad painting.




Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 10:53:59 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2017, 08:57:37 AM »

Hi,
I've updated the page on Il-2 of early 1941.
http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/il-2/il2-camo/il-2early1941/il2-early1941.htm

New photos have emerged on this plane, so it was clear that the improvised camouflage consisted of many shades, and that its bort number was 2 on the rudder, not visible on previous images.
Thanks to Vitaliy Timoshenko for his help.


Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 10:53:30 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
learstang
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« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2017, 08:10:32 PM »

Wow! That is unusual - I do like that scheme!

Regards,

Jason
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