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Author Topic: Winter camo on Galchenko's LaGG-3  (Read 25057 times)
66misos
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« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2013, 01:05:32 PM »

Hi Massimo,
you are right about those rounds on the tail - it is painted material (fabric) covering the hinges on the both sides of the rudder.

I check another pictures about that lighter area - possibly trimmer on rudder.
Rudder with the black cat (summer 1942/43) does not have it:


And on this photo:

neither those rounds nor remnant of the star are so evident. Unfortunately rudder trim is not visible.

Galchenko let painted out also stars on the fuselage, e.g. except tiny star on the spinner there is nothing painted red. He used only white color for decoration (cat) and winter camo. That trimmer is not so bright as cat so it is not painted white.

In this context and with your idea "Who knows if they all were replaced?" I will not paint it red and yet probably green AMT-4.
There will be visible color difference between trimmer and surrounding area and as it is only a small area there will not be problem to repaint it in the future if new ideas/evidence appears. I already want to finish my kit finally Wink

regards,
     66misos
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66misos
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« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2013, 04:34:28 PM »

Hi,
my LaGG-3 in 1:48 from ICM flown by Galchenko is finally finished.

The model is airbrushed with AKAN Acrylics AII Green and AII Blue, A-14 for interior, should be silver. Thinned black is airbrushed over green resulting to black green-to black areas.



White is handbrushed Revell Matt White Enamel. Photos show that white is not painted over big solid areas but smaller blotches. After drying (2 days) sanded with 1000/2000 sand paper to get smooth and not so homogeneous surface - as visible on the photos:


Tamiya Panel Line Accent Color (different mixes of black/brown and grey) and MIG pigments used for weathering.
Eduard PE parts were used for interior and exterior details and Eduard Mask for painting canopy. AML Decals are used for marking.













It is interesting that AII Green color looks very dark, almost black on the white (light) background on the kit photos, similar to the real plane on the snow.
When building this kit I started to like overall shapes of LaGG-3 more and more. I also like that winter camouflage looks unlike all other kits of Galchenko's plane. I hope you like it too Wink

Regards,
     66misos
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learstang
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« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2013, 05:42:06 PM »

Very nice, 66misos!  I'm working on this same aeroplane in 1/72nd scale.  I'm also finishing up Galchenko's La-5F, also in 1/72nd scale.

Regards,

Jason
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2013, 07:12:30 PM »

Hi Misos,
nice model again. Good work researching additional images of the winter paint.
Regards
Massimo
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B_Realistic
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« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2013, 04:12:36 PM »

Very well made. Cheesy
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66misos
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« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2013, 12:40:57 PM »

Hi,
I posted pictures of my kit and b/w screenshots at scalemodels.ru with following remarks (quotations):

1.) Your version of the horizontal surfaces camouflage is based on two pictures of stabilizer. Did you think about where the legs grow from and why they usually used a solid (white) camouflage in the central sectors of the front and spotted (white) camouflage in the north front sectors, against science?

2.) There is a version that the VVS taken part in the Finish campaign received instruction about winter camouflage, adopted at the beginning of the year 1940. Some number of aircrafts had to get large-spotted white color over the solid green color.
IMHO only this could explain (over-)painting Undecided particularly black areas in standard camouflage scheme in 1941, although the well-known (theoretic) works about the winter camouflage, including Burch and Keleynikov, recommended to keep mainly achromatic colors for winter camouflage.
VVS in the Central Front did not apply this instruction.

3.) Science should leave unpainted black fields.

I am not sure whether I correctly understand all that. Could anybody provide more detailed explanation, especially about black painting/repainting? Thank you in advance.

Regards,
     66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2013, 12:54:09 PM »

Hi Misos,
I dont't understand: what is Science?
I have photos of one or two Li-2s in 1942 or 43 that have the white bands where there should be green bands, leaving black and green. But I have more photos of Il-2 where the white paint covers the black parts leaving green visible, and even more photos of different planes where white covered indifferently black and green surfaces.
I have never heard of Burch and Keleynikov. Who were them?
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2013, 05:47:47 PM »

I dont't understand: what is Science?
...
I have never heard of Burch and Keleynikov. Who were them?

In 1920es and 1930es a lot of effort was invested into development of effective camouflage.  Scientists (some of them academicians) and engineers studied colours and various patterns.  So, there is some theory behind VVS camouflage colours and schemes.

You should heave heard for Yevgeniy Burche - he developed and tested few camouflage schemes for Soviet Air Force in 20es and 30es.

Regards,
KL

PS;  Forget Nadia Bukhanova, or factories competing who will make more original camouflage scheme.  The true story was very different.
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66misos
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« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2013, 06:21:28 PM »

Hi KL,
thanx for history background. However, what was the point of that science? I mean white vs. green vs. black and all that related to Galchenko's LaGG-3 from winter 41/42.

regards,
     66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2013, 10:19:47 PM »

Burche... I think to have read something. The guy that made experimental dotted camouflages on biplanes?
Many planes were camouflaged with white winter paints at the units, and it seems that they have never known his studies, in fact all the possibilities written before can be found on photos.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2013, 11:05:13 AM »

Hi,
yesterday snow felt here again Cry
I decided to make some photos to examine how effective or ineffective was this camouflage. Imagine the grass replaced by forrest or by a see with flowing pieces of ice...


I think it was not so bad.

     66misos
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B_Realistic
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« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2013, 12:08:14 PM »

It gives another perspective. Cheesy
We had our last snow tuesday. Undecided
It's very unusual to have some snow this time of year.
It seems that a High pressure from the North is getting the most part of Europe in a cold grip.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2013, 09:49:58 AM »

Hi Misos,
I'vefound a good movie (possibly the same that you've already seen) and made some screenshots.


This encourages to think that the left wing was widely painted white on its outer part.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2013, 11:12:41 AM »

Hi Massimo,
thanks for very nice screenshots Smiley Another bricks to the overall mosaic of the winter camo on Galchenko's LaGG-3. Could you, please, post the link to that video, if possible?

IMHO it fits my picture from the beginning of this thread:


while reflection in the wing prevents to finally decide whether there was only one big white are on the very left side of the wing (e.g. total 3 big blotches), or several smaller blotches (same pattern or logic as on the horizontal stabilizers) like on my kit:


Just to paint white closer to/over leading edge of the wing.

Regards,
    66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2013, 12:28:44 PM »

Hi Misos,
the link, received from AR, is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvA5T48Ff94&list=PLCdwQDWwZXDUMEyJd15rUOSS4NK8DuVku
Includes many other things, as unseen images of winter MiG-3, images of P-39s of 16 GIAP etc.
About the reconstruction of the winter painting of Galchenko's plane, I am always of the idea that this later photo can give useful indications.

Here we see three shades, and in my earlier drawing it was supposed that the intermediate one was a remain of a pre-winter camouflage. But they could be four ones: an early green one, faded black on the nose and tail, fresh black and fresh green. Fresh green and old black could be undistinguishable on this photo except for the glossy finish were visible.  Fresh paint could cover the surfaces where the old one was ruined by the winter finish.
Regards
Massimo
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