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Author Topic: Winter camo on Galchenko's LaGG-3  (Read 25573 times)
66misos
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« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2013, 02:59:16 PM »

Hi Massimo,

left wing white painting on my picture and kit is based on the left bottom picture:



I know that photos are from two different winters, but white painting from both winters visible on horizontal stabilizers and left wing upper surface show same blotched style. And right wing leading edge show also blotched style rather than one big solid white area.

Regards,
     66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2013, 07:33:32 PM »

Hi Misos, I see, two blotches are visible on the left wingroot.
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2015, 10:16:18 AM »

Hi Misos, hi all,
I think it's time to reopen the topic. Some new screenshots, and a new look to those posted by Misos, seem to suggest that some other things have to be modified.
These screenshots are, chronologically, the first known images of this LaGG-3:





What do we see different from my old drawings, apart for the already discussed white blotches on the tail (well visible in images posted by Misos) and on the wings (still largely hypothetical, but probably more complex than on the drawing)?
Well, a difference is that the plane had a retractable tail wheel since the date of this movie. At this point, there is no evidence that it came out of the factory in different way.
Another thing is that the strange white painting on the left side window looks a repair with adhesive tape. This tape continues on the right side, close to the rear edge of the cockpit opening.
Another thing is that the red star on the spinner looks missing. One can't be sure, but I can't see evidence of it nor in the photo with a rotating spinner, nor on that with the stopped one.
The photo shows also fast locks on the lower panel of the nose, as on photos of the same plane datable in fall 1942. No evidence that this piece has been replaced, then.



According to an hypothetical datation, this image could be of February or March 1942, successive to the movie. It shows the red star on the spinner, but also a sliding canopy. White blotches aren't evident, but we can suppose they were there because the ground is still snowy.


The images of the summer/spring seem to show the complete deletion of red stars from the wing undersurfaces too, and the presence on the spinner. The repair with adhesive tape was gone.


This image, hypothetically datable in fall 1942, shows the victory marks on the fuselage, a change in the painting of the rear part of the spinner, the small hammer and sickle on the wheel door and the old style exhaust stack.


This is supposed to be the last photo of this plane: looks as the previous one, apart for the white blotches that leave the victory stars uncovered, and a later type of exhaust pipes divided into three parts. No more hammer and sickle.

Now, at http://airaces.narod.ru/all2/galchenk.htm there is written:
Quote
Гальченко, хотя уже и командовал полком, не жалея себя летал наравне с молодыми пилотами. И снова полёты, полёты. Бои, перегрузки... Однажды, после напряжённого боя, не смог вылезти из кабины - отказали ноги, болью сковало сердце. Друзья вынесли его на руках. Но беда не приходит одна: вскоре у него резко упало зрение...

Госпиталь. Горькие думы. Война, а он не у дел. Как - то приехал Виктор Миронов. "Разрешите летать на вашей машине. Пусть немцы не думают, что наш командир не может подняться в воздух". Леонид разрешил - не хотел обидеть боевого товарища, - но с болью в душе: боялся за его жизнь - за машиной с чёрной кошкой немцы охотились давно... Его опасения подтвердились: самолёт был подбит в воздухе и Виктору пришлось воспользоваться парашютом. Когда Миронов вновь появился в госпитале, Леонид, считавший его погибшим, не сдержался, заплакал от радости, а потом приказал: "Кошку нарисуйте на всех самолётах !.."

and an automatic translation:
Quote
Gal'chenko, though it has commanded a regiment, not sparing himself flew on a par with the young pilots. Again, flights, flying. Fights, overload ... One day, after a hard fight, could not get out of the cabin - not walk pain befall heart. Friends carried him in her arms. But the trouble did not come alone: ​​he soon fell sharply vision ...

Hospital. The bitter thought. The war, and he did not have affairs. How - that came Victor Mironov. "Allow me to fly on your machine. Let the Germans do not think that our commander can not get up in the air." Leonid allowed - do not want to offend comrade - but the pain in my soul: he feared for his life - the car with a black cat Germans hunted for a long time ... His fears were confirmed: the plane was shot down in the air, and Victor had to use a parachute. When Mironov reappeared in the hospital, Leonid, who thought he was dead, could not restrain himself, he wept with joy, and then ordered: "Cat draw on all planes! .."

So, it seems that the plane was lost when flown by Mironov. It's unclear when this happened, but the text seems to suggest the late summer or fall 1942 for his recovery. If so, the last winter photo could be of another LaGG-3 painted to match the previous one.
The order to draw cats on all planes looks to have never been executed, else we should have seen lots of photos of them.

Any thoughts?
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2015, 05:27:03 AM »


Pilawskii has recently posted his analysis at  http://www.redbanner.co.uk/History/ace_aircraft/Galchenko/Galchenko_Las.html
It looks that his order of events and photos is very different from what we previously thought...

Any comments?

Regards,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2015, 08:51:31 AM »

A lot of confusion.
For the LaGG-3: the three-pipes exhaust started to be produced in June 1942, it's simply impossible that a LaGG-3 had them in winter 1941.
Besides, it is clearly identificable on photos an accumulation of modifications. For example, at first there was a white number, then we see a darker patch. First we don't see a star on the spinner (seems), then the star appears. First there are not victory starlets, then they appear. First there are old exaust stacks, then newer stacks appear in what is clearly the last photo of the chronology.
For what I've read, he has inverted this chronology as if element disappear without leaving a trace when time passed and the pilot became more famous.
For the La-5, he draws it with green-black painting. Green-black planes had all a black rounded blotch on the sides of the fuselage, under or behind the red star, and we can't see it (at least on the clearest of two photos, that is chronologically the first one because it has less repaintings and decorative elements). Besides green-black camo should extend under the tail surfaces.
Yes, the camouflage on the photo appears dark, but the type of film or filter can justify this.
One could even suggest that Galchenko ordered to repaint his plane in black and green to match its earlier LaGG-3, but there are not proofs of this. Certainly this is not a factory applied black-green camouflage.
The pattern is that of grey-grey planes, plus a dark grey patch that covers the factory-applied number because Galchenko didn't want numbers on his plane, the cat was enough for the unit commander.

Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 10:18:00 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
KL
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« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2015, 02:44:33 AM »

Hi Massimo,
thanks for the comments.   Smiley As I suspected - Pilawskii is again making up things without any proofs...

The image you made seems to be an interesting case: 



Check google image search https://www.google.ca/search?q=lagg+3&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSiwEaiAELEKjU2AQaBAgACAMMCxCwjKcIGl8KXQgDEieaBJsEjQOAAbgNfvkB7wruCosD5TnVOc850Dn4Keo51znWJuQ51SYaMJm3BzpDYyqWb5xdouQQz5ZPn03kX0qbuBNMG-XpmMrxrlwXHOsDQepR4qTM7eQFYgwLEI6u_1ggaCgoICAESBOjB-JsM&sa=X&ved=0CBoQ2A4oAWoVChMI4N2-kI-ExwIVgyqICh2UxgRO&biw=1280&bih=913#imgrc=_

Your image is used by several Russian, Polish, Japanese, and few other websites...  It's all over the internet   Cheesy  Or, as Pilawskii says, "image is perhaps the most widely known of Gal'chenko's LaGG-3"

But, that's it if you are looking for credits, recognition etc. - Unfortunately, your name isn't directly associated with the image....

Regards,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2015, 12:40:51 PM »

Hi,
well, I've made the most known photo of the plane of Galchenko... it's something anyway.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2015, 09:39:40 AM »

Hi Massimo,
your summary looks very interesting, I think it is goog you are going to update winter scheme.
I was suprpised that "image perhaps the most widely known of Gal'chenko's LaGG-3" is not original photo but you made it from screenshots.

In the comparison to my previous picture, posted almost three years ago (jee, that time is running):


now I would made the white blotches on the left upper wing a bit bigger and closer to the wing root:

In the picture above is your original scheme overlayed (opacity 50%) with my "updated" idea. IMHO it also match darks areas quite well.
I am really curious about your updated Glachenko's winter scheme.
Regards,
    66misos
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66misos
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« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2015, 06:41:28 PM »

Hi,
another picture from airaces.narod.ru to the mosaic:


I wonder if this is the same period/location like this:


regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2015, 08:29:05 PM »

Hi Misos,
I think that it's more or less the same period, winter/spring 1942. Pity that the long shadows alterate the perception of the camo pattern on the first photo.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2017, 09:25:55 AM »

Hi,
the link to photoalbum about Galchenko was posted at scalemodels.ru http://kolanord.ru/html_public/col_war/GaljchenkoLA_fotoalbom/LoktevVP_Rvetsja-k-gorodu-Adolf_2011/assets/basic-html/page-1.html

There is a photo showing a white bloch between board number and tail coming from the right side of the plane over the top:


something like here:


Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2017, 01:05:31 PM »

Hi Misos,
really an interesting collection of photos. the page on Galchenko will be updated some day.
On this photo, I can see the stars under the wings that were not visible on other ones.
Are there comments that could change the chronology of images ofour reconstruction?
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2017, 02:24:10 PM »

...Are there comments that could change the chronology of images ofour reconstruction?
Hi Massimo,
there are no additional comments regarding chronology.
Regards,
   66misos
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Javier Planells
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« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2017, 02:19:50 AM »

Hi folks,

Just a thought, since it's the next build beetween U-2s:could it have been painted in AMT colours and then AIIz been applied over it to create the darker fields before MK-7 was brushed on?

Always glad to receive some feedback from you on these matters.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2017, 07:18:24 AM »

Hi Javier,
no, personally I don't think that AMT-4 is the base color. In my idea, the plane was  built before the war and the base color is AII green, that is faded for ageing. I think that the first camouflage was made with black, then it aged. Subcessive blotches were made with the same colors or a mix of them, and appear darker. The drawings of the page on the site were discussed and some updates have to be done on the white blotches on the wings, as from the photos.
Regards
Massimo
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