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Author Topic: Winter camo on the "Red 58" La-5  (Read 13669 times)
66misos
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« on: October 18, 2012, 11:48:58 PM »

Hi,
I am building La-5, Zvezda 1:48. I want one of those "Eskadrilia Valery Chkalov" planes.
Originally I was decided for summer camo "69". However AML decals made them silver, after short discussion here at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1397.0 I abandoned this idea.

Next choice were original Zvezda decals for "White 60". White color on the Zvezda decals were more-less yellow. I followed an advise of my friend-modeller - to expose decals to sun for a while and UV rays will "correct" yellowish color to white. Unfortunately I forgot them in the garden untill heavy rain. Result - pieces of nice white decals all around  Cry

So I finally decided for AML Decals "Red 58" in the winter camo that I already had. There is only one photo and left-side profile at http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/la5/chkalov/chkalow.html:




Photo does not show wing uppersurface. All other La-5s in winter camo have wings and horizontal stabilizers almost completly painted white.
This "Red 58" has standard green/black camouflage (AMT green and black) mottled by white distemper. Also left vertical strabilizer seems to be also only mottled, not completly painted white as on the plane in front of "Red 58".

I tried to find some additional photos on internet or in my books, but with no result. So has anybody, please, other photo of this "Red 58" plane? Without additional info the right side together with upperwings are only fictious, a subject of doubts and polemics.
Thank you vey much in advance.

Regards,
     66misos
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66misos
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 08:19:14 PM »

Hi,
I am back with my ask for help, please.
La-5 is already painted black/green and decals applied. Next one is white color.
AML Decal instruction sheet (http://www.aml.cz/index.php/en/decals-in-1-48-scale/31-amld-48-013) shows:


After the lesson with my I-16 I browsed internet looking for additional pictures of "58".
I found following:
1.) at Massimo's Mig3 page http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/la5/la5.html


and at different Russian pages:
2.) at http://www.aviasquad.ru/downloads.php?do=file&id=392:


3.) at http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_34126_start_20.html

and


I have two basic questions:
1.) White color was airbrushed (e.g. soft edges) or hand brushed as on Galchenko's LaGG-3?
2.) White area on the upperwings was solid (as on AML Decals) or something like that on Russian pages? Any advise or educated ques is more than welcome.
Thank you very much in advance for your help.

Regards,
     66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2012, 07:08:17 AM »

Hi Misos,
all what I know on that plane is here:
http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/la5/chkalov/chkalow58.html



I cannot sure, I think it's a mix, with large areas sprayed and smaller areas close to the stars and numbers made by hand brush.
Many of these models are La.5FN, not the same type of the photo.
Should I guess the upper camo, it would be banded as for the fuselage.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2013, 04:52:57 PM »

Hi,
here is one work-in-progress picture:


Now wainting for winter camo. Hope I get some info from discussion on scalemodels.ru.

     66misos
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learstang
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2013, 06:26:41 PM »

Looks very nice, 66misos!  I very nearly built my La-5 as this aeroplane, but the complicated winter scheme scared me off.  Still, I'd like to do it someday - good luck with yours!

Regards,

Jason
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2013, 09:25:17 PM »

Looks very nice, I hope to see it ended soon.
Regards
Massimo
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Pascal
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2013, 10:33:05 PM »

I like it too!

Regards,

Pascal
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B_Realistic
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2013, 08:44:32 AM »

Looks very good.
Subtle weathering on the black and you did a good job on the metal exhaust panel.
How you're going to start the white wash?
By airbrush or the hairspray technique?
If you need some advice just ask.
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66misos
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2013, 10:14:37 AM »

Hi,
thanks all for feedback.

Michel,
I am still not decided. Probably it will be combination of handbrush (mostly around inscriptions) and airbrush (mostly bigger areas) and then weathering. This approach at least on 1/35 tanks looks good Smiley
I never before used hairspray technique.
But before I want to clarify appearance of the upper wings on scalemodels.ru.

     66misos
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66misos
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« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2013, 06:33:39 PM »

Hi,
seems there was nothing like "winter camouflage" in VVS. It is interesting how "sensitive" are some experts from scalemodels.ru for this term. According to them the term like "protective white painting" is much more appropriate.

Here, at my thread about Galchenko http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1445.msg11137#msg11137 I post some basic info how to use white color on VVS planes.

And here are notes from my discussion on scalemodels.ru:

You confuse camouflage science and VVS guidance. No single published document from WWII period defines the camouflage paint of white spots. There can be found only mention about "protective white painting" (окраска защитной белой). Prewar instructions written for the Army Air Force that took part in the Finnish War say that the white patches are applied to the basic background, which was green that time. Probably here is origin of the fashion to overpaint black areas in the latter period.

...this can explain overpainting of the black areas in the standard 1941 scheme.
vs.
Science should leave unpainted black fields.
vs.
...the fashion to overpaint black areas in the latter period.

Does it mean that the final result is a white-black or white-green plane?

Well, judging by the photos, there really existed white-green camouflage. E.F.Burche in his works recommended the fields of black and white for winter achromatic camouflage.

I also would vote for white-black alternative. There is not a lot of green grass during the winter (in the far north) but dark gray rocks and/or pieces of white ice on the dark see can be fond there.
However, when looking at standard black-green camouflage:

and "nonstandard" protective white painting:

no strict white-green or white-black approach is evident.
IMHO it seems that white is painted more in green areas (cowling, rear fuselage) although some small white is painted also in black areas (rudder, around canopy).

Based on that I probably should paint white mainly within green areas on the opposite side of the fuselage and upperwings, although I should partially overpaint also black areas.
Any comments or recommendations?
Thanks.

Regards,
    66misos






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4bogreen
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« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2013, 10:51:18 PM »

Hi 66misos,

Your La-5 looks nice  Smiley About the winter camouflage i have a technique for you i use on my T-34 tanks.
-First i airbrush the white color (not perfect, just that the paint underneath shines thru. A thin layer)
-Then i take a sponge piece with a bit of white paint and press it gently on the airbrushed parts, so that i get a so called ''mapping'' look on this area. Why? because if it was airbrushed on the plane, some area's had more paint than other parts. Also the maintenance hatches would lose the white was quicker than other area's and could be heavier ''chipped'' or faded. Before you sponge your plane, make sure that you tap most out of it on a piece of colored paper to messure the amount of paint on your sponge (i prefer 10% paint on it).
-With some humbrol white paint i make some ''streaking effects'' on it. How? I make some dots with a No. 1 or 0 brush, take a flat No.4 brush with some damp turpentine (not soaked!) and begin to make a down wards movements (two or three times on a spot, or when you like the result, then stop)
-To finish the result, you can use the mixture to highlight the panellining, to ''dirty'' it down a bit...

Regards,

Remco
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2013, 08:04:47 AM »

Hi Misos, hi all,

as said, the white paint sometimes covers predominantly black bands (as on the tail and wings of this plane of Z.30)

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/winter-singles/6winterz30.html

sometimes it don't follow absolutey the camo, but they avoided the front fuselage


sometimes they covered green (of course, this consideration requires to know the original camo because green and black are often  undistinguishable in presence of white.


About 58, I would go with an approximatively symmetric distribution of white bands, or a fully casual one, because in this case there is not relation between the base camouflage and the white spots.

Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 09:03:19 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
66misos
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« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2013, 07:51:44 PM »

Hi,
my endless project is finally done.

Firstly I put one over another two profiles from AML Decals instruction sheet to see the logic of winter camo:

The white color is mainly (not exclusively) over green color on the fuselage left side, although also big black areas are partially masked by white. So it is quite simmiliar to the winter masking theory discussed above.

The same logic I tried to apply to the right fuselage and upper surface. White color is handbrushed and then airbrushed diluted highly Humbrol enamel. Then a bit sanded. Then Tamiya Panel Line Accent Color and MIG Pigments used.
I did not apply significant weathering as this plane was quite new and used on the frozen snowy airfield. No summer dust and strong sun.













Regards,
     66misos





 
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 08:10:49 PM by 66misos » Logged

learstang
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« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2013, 08:18:48 PM »

Beautifully-done model - brilliant job!

Regards,

Jason
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4bogreen
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« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2013, 09:04:38 PM »

Hey 66misos,

The white looks a bit to nice, but the overall work looks... Brilliant! Cheesy I rating it A- or 9 out of 10! Love the metal engine cover!
I would be proud if i own this plane (and you should be misos  Wink)
Maybe you shout make black and white photo of it and post it. I think it will have a great effect  Grin

Regards,

Remco
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- T-34 STZ 1942 early (Cyberhobby)
- T-14 Armata (Revell)
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