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Author Topic: I-16 factory pic  (Read 5879 times)
xan
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« on: October 31, 2012, 07:36:23 PM »

Hello,
I would like to know what do you think about this I-16 picture....



I thinlk we spoke about, but I didn't find where...
I saw this I-16 decoration was proposed in, the fantastic begemot I-16 decals sheet.

this decoration is quite strange.
first question:
Do you think this I-16 is in a definitive paint or it's be just for the pic ?

perhaps this other pic reminds the first one:



if it's the definitive decoration, how is the decoration:

winter camo (white) or AII silver and AE-9 ? like this one ?



wating for your opinions  Wink

Xan




 
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 08:18:46 PM by xan » Logged

KL
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2012, 08:24:16 PM »




Those two pics were taken at Zavod 51, in Moscow sometimes in 1942 - either beginning of 1942 or, according to D. Grinyuk, in winter 1942/43. After the evacuation of aviation factories from Moscow  in autumn of 1941, Zavod 51 became an overhaul depot for Polikarpov planes.   Damaged I-16s brought from combat units, I-16s from flying schools, storage, reserves, etc.  were modified to attack planes (shturmovics) equipped with RS rocket launchers.

Hard to say how those overhauled I-16 were painted in winter 1941-42 - It looks that they were overall light gray, maybe overall silver? Starting from spring 1942 overhauled planes were camouflaged in standard black-green.

Plane with No 6 is probably photographed before the repainting.  Old squadron number was probably repainted later.  Three planes on the second photo are probably repainted in overall light gray.  Stress is on probably...



This I-16 is not related to the above:  It's a 1938 plane which belonged to a commander of a larger unit or an inspector.  This plane is painted as an aerobatic (airshow) plane.

HTH,
KL
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 06:14:02 PM by KL » Logged
KL
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2012, 06:34:52 PM »

Quote
first question:
Do you think this I-16 is in a definitive paint or it's be just for the pic ?

I don?t think any Soviet plane was repainted specially for photo session during the GPW?  This would be a waste of time, effort and paint.  What for??? Especially at the time when every professional photographer knew how to retouch photos!  (and they did retouch photos routinely - we all know how widespread retouch was in Soviet Union, practically till its end)

I am amused every time when I see a comment ?freshly repainted for a propaganda film? ? it?s a Pilawskii style guesswork.

It?s different with slogans, there is evidence that some were painted specially for movies or for photo sessions.

HTH,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2012, 06:50:24 PM »

Hi,
the horizontal tailplanes close to 6 have a demarcation line on their leading edge, as if they were green and blue.
Regards
Massimo
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xan
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 10:08:54 PM »

Hi, the horizontal tailplanes close to 6 have a demarcation line on their leading edge, as if they were green and blue.

it's true, but this horizontal tailplanes are not the "6"'s one (it has his own tailplane monted)

so what could be the colour?
in 1941/42, AII silver ena AE-9 is not very plausible...
so it could be a winter white paint ?

that's what propose Begemot in its decals sheet



Did someone seen another I-16's pic with the number into the star, as this one had ?

Xan
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KL
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2012, 01:46:18 AM »

Quote
so what could be the colour?
in 1941/42, AII silver ena AE-9 is not very plausible...

Silver AII Aluminium is very plausible.  It was produced in 1941/42 and used, for example, as an interior protective coat for Lagg-3 wooden structure.  Famous Lagg-3 fuselage displayed at Vesivehmaa museum is silver inside.

For overhauled I-16s I would not exclude old AII Light Gray.   Huh
AE-9 was produced in 1941 as interior paint... Could have been used for metal if planes were painted with AII Light Gray.   Huh

Quote
so it could be a winter white paint ?

According to S. Kuznetsov and his Yak-1 book, quality of the washable MK-7 was poor during the winter 1941-42, so new Yak-1s were factory painted with white nitro cellulose paint.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 04:46:08 AM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2012, 06:57:14 AM »

Hi,
the color of the number looks as the one of the rudder, this looks a strong argument for a white finish.
I think that some Mig-3s (as 02) were white finished with nitro paints instead of MK-7.
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2012, 07:52:00 AM »

What about Shturmoviks?  Some were painted white in the factory, but I thought it was MK-7.  I've seen photographs of assembly lines that appear to have white-painted Il-2's.

Regards,

Jason
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2012, 01:59:11 PM »

Hi, maybe it was. I've read somewhere that the director of a factory protested for the roughness of the finish that caused a loss of speed. But I don't know what they did at the end. I've seen photos that seems to show some white Il-2s in a factory, but they were mixed with camouflaged planes, so maybe it was some maintenance facility. On the whole, I think that the MK-7 was the rule, but if one finds the photo of a uniform and maybe glossy plane, this could be the case.
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2012, 05:55:41 PM »

Sergey Ilyushin himself disliked the MK-7 paint, because of its rough finish, and this was one reason its use was discontinued, at least for Shturmoviks, after the winter of 43/44.

Regards,

Jason
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2012, 08:23:02 AM »

Hi,
probably it was discontinued also because Soviets had less to fear ground attacks. A white finish is camouflaging on a snowy background, but is highly visible on any other background including the sky and horizon. Any dark color is masked by the blue of air if the distance is sufficient, but a light color is more visible in distance.
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2012, 05:50:53 PM »

Hi,
probably it was discontinued also because Soviets had less to fear ground attacks. A white finish is camouflaging on a snowy background, but is highly visible on any other background including the sky and horizon. Any dark color is masked by the blue of air if the distance is sufficient, but a light color is more visible in distance.
Regards
Massimo


Similar to the way the USAAF in Europe quit camouflageing their aeroplanes during 1944 because the Luftwaffe was ceasing to be such a threat.

Regards,

Jason
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