Sovietwarplanes
July 16, 2019, 08:50:08 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This forum replaces the old sovietwarplanes.com whose domain has expired in January 2017. It has been updated with the posts of the year 2016.
The new location of the site 'Sovietwarplanes pages' is at http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Soviet anti-shipping / torpedo aircraft?  (Read 15439 times)
Aaronw
Newbie
*
Posts: 14


« on: December 03, 2012, 12:08:12 AM »

Considering the relatively few number of kits available of VVS aircraft, I've noticed what seems to me to be an unusual number* equipped with torpedoes (at least in 1/72 which is where I live). I was not aware that there was even much of an anti-shipping role on the East front, can anyone shed some light on this?

*probably only 2 or 3, but considering there are only a dozen or two types available that seems a high proportion if there wasn't an active anti-shipping war
Logged
learstang
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1746



WWW
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2012, 01:17:31 AM »

I can speak for the Shturmovik.  There was considerable anti-shipping activity in the Black Sea.  There wasn't as much in the Baltic Sea, until later in the war, and there was some in the Arctic Ocean.  Shturmoviks were attached to the various Fleets, such as the Red Banner Fleet (Baltic Fleet), the Black Sea Fleet, and the Northern Fleet, where their main responsibility was anti-shipping activities, in addition to their normal duties providing ground support to land forces.  Contrary to some reports (and at least one kit), however, there doesn't appear to have been any Il-2's that were equipped with torpedoes.  They used their rockets, bombs, and guns to attack Axis shipping.  The Il-4 and the A-20 Boston were both equipped with torpedoes, and were used in the anti-shipping role.

Regards,

Jason  
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 01:49:52 AM by learstang » Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
Aaronw
Newbie
*
Posts: 14


« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2012, 03:26:46 AM »

I had no idea, Thanks. 
Logged
Troy Smith
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 379


« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2012, 06:00:15 AM »

The VVS used ex-RAF Hampdens in the Baltic,
nice big pic here


in the pic of bort #30 below, you can see the stabilising tail of the torpedo, just under the lower gunner's position. I think this is a British torpedo as well, not totally sure.
There was a specific variant of the Hampden configured to carry torpedos BTW.


At least two Hampdens have been salvged from Russia BTW.

this one is being restored at the RAF museum, note original RAF markings have weathered through.

These were replaced by A-20G Bostons.
these were VVS modified, with added torpedo/bomb racks.    This allowed the bomb bay to be sealed up and fitted with extra fuel tanks .

Initially they added a navigator station in the rear fuselage, but later they modifed the gun nose, removing the 4 nose guns and adding glazing, making a naigator/aimer position.
as can be seen below, note torpedo to left


There is a good thread here [of course] which containts lots of info and some scale drawings too
http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1007.0
it was posted on the short lived alternate site, hence the 'recovered topic'

there a re loads of photos here, follow the links, they lead to more pics...
http://www.bellabs.ru/51/Photos/_Scenes.html

note in this article
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/geust/aircraft_deliveries.htm
Quote
Lend-lease aircraft amounted to 18% of all aircraft in the Soviet air forces, 20% of all bombers, and 16-23% of all fighters (numbers vary depending on calculation methods), and 29% of all naval aircraft. In some AF commands and fronts the proportion of Lend-Lease aircraft was even higher: of the 9.888 fighters delivered to the air defense (PVO) fighter units in 1941-45 6.953 (or over 70%!) were British or American. In the AF of the Karelian front lend-lease aircraft amounted to about two-thirds of all combat aircraft in 1942-43, practically all torpedo bombers of the naval air forces were A-20G Bostons in 1944-45 etc.

Some American aircraft types were simply irreplaceable and very highly appreciated on all levels during the war, e.g. P-39 Airacobra fighters, A-20 Boston and B-25 Mitchell bombers and C-47 transport aircraft.

HTH
T
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 06:20:46 PM by Troy Smith » Logged
B_Realistic
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 373


« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2012, 09:32:42 AM »

I never knew htey had Hampdens.
That's odd. Shocked
Logged
learstang
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1746



WWW
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2012, 05:49:12 PM »

I knew the Soviets had Hampdens, Troy, but I didn't realise they used them as torpedo-bombers.  Thank you for the photographs!

Regards,

Jason
Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
learstang
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1746



WWW
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2012, 05:50:22 PM »

I never knew htey had Hampdens.
That's odd. Shocked

If you think that's odd, Michel, the Soviets also had A.W. Albermarles.

Regards,

Jason
Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
Troy Smith
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 379


« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2012, 06:25:13 PM »

I never knew htey had Hampdens.
That's odd. Shocked

If you think that's odd, Michel, the Soviets also had A.W. Albermarles.

Regards,

Jason
Apparently they were just used for their engines!
Logged
learstang
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1746



WWW
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2012, 06:35:10 PM »

I never knew htey had Hampdens.
That's odd. Shocked

If you think that's odd, Michel, the Soviets also had A.W. Albermarles.

Regards,

Jason
Apparently they were just used for their engines!

I had wondered what they used the b****y things for!  Of course, the RAF fobbed off the Airacobras on the Soviets because the RAF hated them, and were no doubt amazed when the Soviets actually loved them and used them to good effect!  The Soviets also liked the Curtiss O-52 Owl, which America sent them because the USAAF had no use for them.  Well, one man's rubbish is another man's treasure.

Regards,

Jason
Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
Troy Smith
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 379


« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 06:39:40 PM »

I knew the Soviets had Hampdens, Troy, but I didn't realise they used them as torpedo-bombers.  Thank you for the photographs!

Regards,

Jason
It's on wiki so it must be true  Wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_Hampden
Quote
After being withdrawn from Bomber Command in 1942, it operated with RAF Coastal Command through 1943 as a long-range torpedo bomber, (the Hampden TB Mk I with a Mk XII torpedo in an open bomb bay and a single 500 lb (230 kg) bomb under each wing) and as a maritime reconnaissance aircraft. No. 144 Squadron RAF and No. 455 Squadron RAAF were involved in the escort of Arctic Convoy PQ-18 operating from Soviet airbases and left their 23 aircraft in the USSR afterward. These were then used by the 3rd Squadron of the 24 MTAP (Anti-shipping Wing) of the Soviet Navy until at least 1943.[6] The Hampden was also used by the RCAF and the RNZAF.

There's a lovely colour pic of a Hampden in flight on the wiki page too.

I have a Fonderie Miniature Hampden kit that a friend gave me [which actually started me off buying kits again!] which if it gets done will end up a VVS one. [FM kits are 'legendary' for their quality..]

For the modeller I think there are some differences in underfuselage layout, and posssibly the gunner's position, IIRC a post on Britmodeller.
wow, my brain has not totally addled!
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70233

note Graham Boak's post, #16
Quote
The Hampden bombbay modifications were restricted to the heavy duty carrier and appropriate wiring/fitting.  It was not deepened and the doors were not altered.   The torpedo was thus carried mainly below the bottom line of the fuselage (doors closed).  The step was entirely due to the change in the gunner's position.  This has been misrepresented in many drawings and descriptions:(I have spent many hours poring over photos trying (and failing!) to find evidence of this.   It is however correct in Green's original Bombers of WW2 and fully described in Putnam's Handley Page Aircraft.  The revision can be seen in photographs by the smaller windows and change in curve.  I have held the appropriate part in my hand at Cosford, and possess drawings of the Test Installation.

and a couple of neat pics from the thread, but posted here as we need all the VVS info in one place...here!


here's one with the stabilising tail, mentioned again by Graham in post #13
Quote
My understanding, reinforced by the photo above, is that when carrying a torpedo the outer doors closed normally and the inner doors rested against the torpedo sides.  Once the torpedo dropped they closed normally.  The step up at the rear on torpedo bombers was caused by the ventral gunner's position being reduced in depth to allow the Monoplane Air Tail to be fitted: otherwise there wouldn't have been room for this.  The MAT allowed the torpedo to be dropped sucessfully at higher speeds than the 80kts or so of a standard design.
Compare to pic of bort #30  posted above.



cheers
T
Logged
learstang
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1746



WWW
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2012, 07:06:11 PM »

Good information, Troy - thank you!  I suppose I just may have to get me a Hampden now.  I love Soviet aeroplanes, of course, but I also like L-L aircraft in Soviet markings - I have a B-25, two P-39's, three P-40's, and a P-47, all nearly completed, to attest to that.  I would suspect the Valom Hampden kit is quite a bit better than the ancient Airfix effort.  I realise that the Valom kit may require some filling and sanding, etc., but being a VVS modeller I'm pretty used to that.

Regards,

Jason
Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2012, 08:00:51 PM »

There was a text about Soviet Hempdens in the recent "Flypast"!!!  5 pages by V. Kotelnikov and Y. Ribin.



also see here:
http://www.euromodelnews.net/nwsIndex.php?action=NwsView&nId=9583&PHPSESSID=7a035614aaf06a56aa97ac0b67ae4e00

Quote
In Combat
 Vladimir Kotelnikov and Yuriy Rybin relate the gallant exploits of Hampdens in Soviet service.

Looks that it hasn't been noticed by other forum members...  Roll Eyes

Regards,
KL
Logged
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2012, 10:39:01 PM »

Development of Soviet anti-shipping/torpedo aviation:





from 1996 Aviatsiya i Kosmonavtika at http://www.e-reading.org.ua/chapter.php/146673/9/Aviaciya_i_kosmonavtika_-_Aviaciya_i_kosmonavtika_1996_04.html

Regards,
KL
Logged
learstang
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1746



WWW
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2012, 10:45:55 PM »

Very nice profiles, Konstantin, thank you for posting!

Regards,

Jason
Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
Aaronw
Newbie
*
Posts: 14


« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2012, 01:27:15 AM »

Wow, very neat stuff. When I hear torpedo bomber I think Pacific war. I guess this is just another casualty of all the focus going to the big armor battles of the East front.

Thanks, now not only have I added the Zvesda IL-4 to my list of things to get, I think I'll be on the lookout for another Hampton. Also need to find a book that covers the naval war in the east, clearly what I have fails in that regard.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!