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Author Topic: Soviet anti-shipping / torpedo aircraft?  (Read 15026 times)
learstang
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« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2012, 02:01:09 AM »

Wow, very neat stuff. When I hear torpedo bomber I think Pacific war. I guess this is just another casualty of all the focus going to the big armor battles of the East front.

Thanks, now not only have I added the Zvesda IL-4 to my list of things to get, I think I'll be on the lookout for another Hampton. Also need to find a book that covers the naval war in the east, clearly what I have fails in that regard.

Aaron, unfortunately the Zvezda kit needs some work to make it more accurate.  From what I've read, the best thing to do is to combine this kit with the Revell Il-4, combining the wings from the Revell kit with the fuselage from the Zvezda kit.  I actually have both kits, but I haven't been brave enough to try this just yet.  You might look here on this site to find more information about making an accurate Il-4 - www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/db3-il4/models/ilya/ilya.html   It's amazing that such an important aeroplane (the Soviet equivalent to the He-111) hasn't been adequately done in any scale, even 1/72nd scale, but such is the state of VVS modelling.  We're all still waiting for an accurate 1/72nd scale I-153.

Regards,

Jason
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KL
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2012, 07:53:37 PM »

Il-4 torpedo-bomber by photo-correspondent R. Diament:








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learstang
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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2012, 10:38:09 PM »

Again, nice photographs, Konstantin!  I especially like the third photograph of the Il-4 in flight; it shows off the external fuel tank to good advantage.  I never really thought about it, but that high landing gear gave the Il-4 good ground clearance for loading and taking off with the torpedo.  The pilot's cockpit is surprisingly small - it doesn't look bigger than a Shturmovik's.

Regards,

Jason
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Aaronw
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2012, 10:53:21 PM »

Great photos, very inspiring.

Not really seeing what his issue was with the Zvesda wings, sounds like panel lines and undersized cowlings. As a big fan of Matchbox and Airfix I could n't care less about panel lines. The cowling depending on how bad they are could be an issue though, but that is why they make resin... shouldn't be too hard to borrow a Revell kit or find a similar cowling to copy.
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KL
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« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2012, 01:39:47 AM »

I especially like the third photograph of the Il-4 in flight; it shows off the external fuel tank to good advantage.

It's a parachute case - this torpedo was dropped from altitude, not from low level flight:



check here:  http://rusarchives.ru/victory65/pages/16_31.htm
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learstang
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« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2012, 01:51:22 AM »

I especially like the third photograph of the Il-4 in flight; it shows off the external fuel tank to good advantage.

It's a parachute case - this torpedo was dropped from altitude, not from low level flight:

Now that I didn't know; thank you for the information, Konstantin!  If I ever get around to doing my Il-4, I'll have to run a line from the end of the torpedo to the parachute container.  I know I've read that it was a fuel tank - imagine that, someone writing incorrect information about a GPW VVS aeroplane!

Regards,

Jason
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FPSOlkor
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« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2012, 06:45:11 PM »

Hampdens were not at Baltic, but at Arctic... They were disliked byt teir crews. Look here
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/alekseev/index.htm

O-52s were available for VVS in great numbers - 19 planes in total...
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2012, 06:53:37 PM »

Hi, a good link with photos of A-20 with torpedoes.
http://www.bellabs.ru/51/BostonUSSR/BostonUSSR-06.html
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Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2012, 06:57:35 PM »

A page of profiles from the same site

http://www.bellabs.ru/51/BostonUSSR/BostonUSSR-17.html
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2012, 09:48:46 PM »

Hi,

when looking at the photos posted by KL today I wonder how that torpedo with paraschute falling down almost vertically could find the way from deep waters to the target.

Regards,
     66misos



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learstang
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« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2012, 10:19:02 PM »

Great photos, very inspiring.

Not really seeing what his issue was with the Zvesda wings, sounds like panel lines and undersized cowlings. As a big fan of Matchbox and Airfix I could n't care less about panel lines. The cowling depending on how bad they are could be an issue though, but that is why they make resin... shouldn't be too hard to borrow a Revell kit or find a similar cowling to copy.

Aaron, I think the main issue is with the cowlings; the Zvezda ones are much too cylindrical.  I've played around with the idea of just replacing those with the Revell cowlings, and adding some of the interior from the Revell kit, which has more interior detailing.  That is if I ever get around to it.

Regards,

Jason
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KL
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« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2012, 10:22:31 PM »

when looking at the photos posted by KL today I wonder how that torpedo with paraschute falling down almost vertically could find the way from deep waters to the target.

Torpedo 45-36 АV-А was designed to make circles (to run/swim? in circles) or to make spirals.  This could be an effective tactic against ships in convoys.

Germans used similar tactics, check here http://www.uboat.net:8080/technical/torpedoes.htm

Quote
There were also two important pattern-running devices which could be applied to various torpedo types. These were FAT and LUT.

The FAT (Federapparat Torpedo) ran a wandering course with regular 180-degree turns, was useful against convoys, and was fitted to both G7a and G7e T3s. From the end of 1942 onwards it was manufactured at the rate of roughly 100 per month.

LUT was a more sophisticated version of the FAT, with more variable patterns, but was only used operationally towards the end of the war.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 10:27:15 PM by KL » Logged
Aaronw
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« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2012, 07:19:53 AM »

Great photos, very inspiring.

Not really seeing what his issue was with the Zvesda wings, sounds like panel lines and undersized cowlings. As a big fan of Matchbox and Airfix I could n't care less about panel lines. The cowling depending on how bad they are could be an issue though, but that is why they make resin... shouldn't be too hard to borrow a Revell kit or find a similar cowling to copy.

Aaron, I think the main issue is with the cowlings; the Zvezda ones are much too cylindrical.  I've played around with the idea of just replacing those with the Revell cowlings, and adding some of the interior from the Revell kit, which has more interior detailing.  That is if I ever get around to it.

Regards,

Jason

Thanks, it wasn't really clear what the issue was.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2012, 11:15:55 AM »

Hi Aaronw and Jason, I don't have the model of Zvezda, but from what I have seen on reviews, the wings of Zvezda should be scomposed in six pieces each, so a bit difficult to build, and the position of the part with nacelles should be a bit out of proportion. Nothing impossible to correct, I think. I wonder why it was done so. Maybe they thought to obtain a DB-3 from the same moulds?
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2012, 05:55:55 PM »

Hi Aaronw and Jason, I don't have the model of Zvezda, but from what I have seen on reviews, the wings of Zvezda should be scomposed in six pieces each, so a bit difficult to build, and the position of the part with nacelles should be a bit out of proportion. Nothing impossible to correct, I think. I wonder why it was done so. Maybe they thought to obtain a DB-3 from the same moulds?
Regards
Massimo

When kits are over-engineered, as the Zvezda one is, it seems like it is often due to the manufacturer wanting to do different variants from the same basic moulds (think of models with separate noses and/or tails, for example).  That's one advantage the Revell (ex VEB/Plasticart) kit has over the Zvezda kit - the wings look much easier to build.  But then you have to mate it with the centre-wing assembly (I plan on using that part of the Zvezda kit, whichever way I go on the wings - in any case, the Zvezda cowlings have to go).

Regards,

Jason
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