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Author Topic: Yak-23 cockpit colors  (Read 25773 times)
otto
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« on: December 28, 2012, 07:16:50 PM »

Hello everyone, and have a happy 2013!
I am planning to build a Special Hobby 1/72 Yak-23 and I need some expert?s help for the cockpit colors. The instruction sheet suggests light gray Gunze H57 for the entire cockpit, except the seat which is green H312.
This site (http://www.airgroup2000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=224364) shows many cockpit pictures where the main parts seem natural aluminium or perhaps light gray, including the seat. The front instrument panel, left vertical console, control column, throttle and canopy frames are green. It seems an unrestored aircraft, if this is the case it could be reliable.
According to Mushroom N? 6124, the whole cockpit seems light gray (could it be AE9?).
Thank you in advance for your help.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2012, 08:15:31 PM »

Hi Otto,
the inside looks grey-green, traces of color are visible on the nm parts as if it was removed.
Grey-green inside is displayed from some Russian Yak-9s too.
Akanihin has copied this color and sells it as AE-9, but I think that is not the AE-9 of SB, but another misidentified color.
Regards
Massimo
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otto
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« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2012, 08:42:02 PM »

Thank you Massimo!
Looking at the Yak-23 pictures as above and these (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=855.0) of the Yak-9, it seems to me that Humbrol 31, perhaps lightened for scale effect, could be a good match. Any suggestion?
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KL
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« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2012, 08:57:11 PM »

This site (http://www.airgroup2000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=224364) shows many cockpit pictures where the main parts seem natural aluminium or perhaps light gray, including the seat. The front instrument panel, left vertical console, control column, throttle and canopy frames are green. It seems an unrestored aircraft, if this is the case it could be reliable.
According to Mushroom N? 6124, the whole cockpit seems light gray (could it be AE9?).

Cockpit of the unrestored plane is dark green A-15f.  This was standard cockpit colour in late 1940es.
Check here:  http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=895.45
Table by Vahlamov & Orlov:


Translation:


the inside looks grey-green, traces of color are visible on the nm parts as if it was removed.
Grey-green inside is displayed from some Russian Yak-9s too.
Akanihin has copied this color and sells it as AE-9, but I think that is not the AE-9 of SB, but another misidentified color.

Gray-green cockpit is known from the Yak-9 which was preserved at OKB Yakovlev Museum, now in Zadorozhni museum.  This is the only authentic wartime Yak-9, but its colours are not authentic. The plane was overhauled in 1970es; its exterior was painted in spurious colours (light gray + gray-green  Lips Sealed) and its cockpit was painted in equaly wrong colour.
HTH,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2012, 09:56:37 PM »

Hi,
Quote
and its cockpit was painted in equaly wrong colour,
however it looks the same color of the Yak-23. Besides there are some layers of visible color, and are all variations of grey-green.
Regards
Massimo
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otto
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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2012, 10:20:26 PM »

mmmm... Undecided
So the gray green of the Yak-23 pictures could be aged dark green. The canopy frames appear darker than the instrument panel, possibly because they are more protected from light and handling. Things are more complicated than I expected!
Acording to the color table, the wheel bays were painted A-14f gray. This seems to be confirmed by the pictures in the Mushroom book, what do you think?
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KL
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« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 10:29:11 AM »

Use of Dark green as a cockpit colour is fact
Li-2 Restored in Hungary



Monino Li-2, green and gray


Gray-green as designated colour for WWII Soviet planes is a myth.  Only at hyperscale forum you can find that Russians painted cockpits in RLM-02.  This forum should be better...
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otto
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« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 10:23:37 PM »

Thank you, Massimo and KL!
The Li-2 pictures show gray, green and gray-green paint applied on different items. This seems to match roughly with the Yak-23 pictures: green on instrument panel, control stick and canopy frames, gray on floor, walls and seat. The green paint is not so dark, so it could fade into a gray-green shade after several decades.
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Pete57
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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2012, 12:22:43 AM »

Hi, Smiley my first post here.

According to http://www.airwar.ru/enc/other/yak11.html (and a 'doctored' translation based on Google-translate - granted, not the best tool Grin)

"...Also in 1947 the specifications for oil matte enamel A-23m was approved. Its nitrocellulose counterpart was called DC-23 (probably, DC - for the cabin). Although in the specification the color for this enamel color was "gray-green", some of the data related to the later classification system for the shades of paints, suggest that it would be better to call it "a gray-green." A-23m was used for painting exterior surfaces, and, from 1946, at the factory No. 292, its nitro-based enamel and DC-23were used for the interior of the Yak-11. They were also used to paint the engine mounts, landing gear struts and covers, landing flaps, etc. ..."

I don't know how reliable the information is, but can't help wondering wondering if the painting practice for one type of Yakovlev aircraft was extended to all the other types...

Best regards,

Pete57
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Pete57
KL
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« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2012, 06:00:44 AM »

Hi Pete57,  Smiley
thanks for the interesting info!
It's from 2007-8 Modelist-Konstruktor, author is M. Orlov.  Magazine is available for download at http://publ.lib.ru/ARCHIVES/M/''Modelist-konstruktor''/_''Modelist-konstruktor''_2007_.html
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 01:04:07 PM »

But so, is the inside color of Yak-11 identical to the outside, and similar to the grey-green of the Yak-9 in the museum? It's strange for me.
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 05:56:33 PM »

Welcome to the forum, Pete57, and thank you for the information!

Best Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

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KL
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« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2012, 10:56:58 PM »

But so, is the inside color of Yak-11 identical to the outside, and similar to the grey-green of the Yak-9 in the museum? It's strange for me.

Orlov's text says something like: "Although the normativ name of the colour was "gray-green", it would be better to call it "greenish-gray""

So, it was more green than gray...  kind of...  Huh

I would not rely much on those Yaks restored in 1970es, even if it was for OKB Yakovlev Museum.  Nobody cared about authentic colours in those times...
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Pete57
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« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2013, 10:14:54 PM »

But so, is the inside color of Yak-11 identical to the outside, and similar to the grey-green of the Yak-9 in the museum? It's strange for me.
Regards
Massimo

Indeed it's not very clear (or perhaps, it is the Google translation that makes it unclear...)

At one point it seems that the interior was in nitrocellulose DK-23, with the exterior in the oil-based enamel A-23m, but a few lines down it states that all the exterior surfaces were painted gray-blue AGT-16, switching, in the second half of 1953 until the end of production, in 1954 to perchlorovinyl enamel HVE-16 of the same shade as the AGT-16. Huh

Unless A-23m was a primer and, following its application, the aircraft received a coat of AGT-16/HVE-16... Roll Eyes

Perhaps someone in the forum who speaks Russian could clarify Smiley...

According to http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_9888.html Mig-9 and Yak-23 colors, Yak-23's were painted silver while MiG-9's were painted the same grey as the Yak-11 as per post # 6 by 'Summoner' and the confirmation, in post #7 by 'rueveet' who appearently known someone who had worked on the MiG-9.

I'm afraid, though, this doesn't clarify the matter Embarrassed

Best regards,

Pete57
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Pete57
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« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 11:03:52 PM »

Color cockpit could be gray and green in equal measure.
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