Saivila
Newbie
Posts: 49
|
 |
« Reply #105 on: May 06, 2013, 11:12:19 AM » |
|
Yes. Something like that, If you want so. Except that the disks under a stars, are painted on Finnish enamels during the restoration.
Even if they look like original. Yes real colours are distorted by Brownish lightning but the real thing is not far away.
I got a whole bunch of restoration before/ after pics from IPMS magazine, but they are lost. The discs were white when
aircrafts were on storage. But i have allso seen the wartime pic where you can see three pair of AC wings and disks are not white.
One of those pairs is under this museum aircraft today.
Regards Saivila
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
66misos
|
|
« Reply #106 on: May 06, 2013, 01:35:18 PM » |
|
Hi Saivila, thanks for explanation. I also saw (wartime?) photo showing that P-39 without engine and with removed wing. A even posted it somewhere here, but I cannot find it now  disks under a stars, are painted on Finnish enamels during the restoration. So no preserved soviet paints  It is interesting when compared to http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1459.0: Answers to the "Frequently Asked Questions", by museum staff
We have been asked whether the paint of our Airacobra, currently under restoration, has been changed since the artistic brush marks of its Russian painter. The paint of the P-39Q under restoration has not been touched.
But... Soviet paint is not characterized by utmost permanence...So is there so much to wonder about if something falls off the surface of an airplane in a forced landing and in the ensuing shock?
The museum's aim is to preserve as much original as possible, in other words, we try to maintain the guise in which the aircraft made its forced landing... Yes. Something like that, If you want so. What I want in this case is to get most probable picture of Sukhov's plane when appeared on the movie. Unfortunately, until some written confirmation from some maintenance/service book will be provided or some good quality color photo will appears everything else is just speculation approaching more or less to reality. I want to put as much as possible info and comments onto one pile to help me and other modellers to make their final decisions. I really do not like Murphy's Law in modelling, e.g. immediately after the kit is finished the new info disputing chosen camo & marking appears. Although it happens (to me) again and again  regards, 66misos |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
AC26
|
|
« Reply #107 on: May 06, 2013, 09:32:24 PM » |
|
Yes. Something like that, If you want so. Except that the disks under a stars, are painted on Finnish enamels during the restoration.
Even if they look like original. Yes real colours are distorted by Brownish lightning but the real thing is not far away.
I got a whole bunch of restoration before/ after pics from IPMS magazine, but they are lost. The discs were white when
aircrafts were on storage. But i have also seen the wartime pic where you can see three pair of AC wings and disks are not white.
Hi all, Magazine in question is IPMS-Mallari 134-135 dated 2-3/2000. There are plenty of pictures of the Airacobra, a couple of pre restoration and some during restoration pictures. In pre restoration pictures over painting of the fuselage circles has been almost totally wearied away but still visible. Lady, who wrote the article says that she counted seven (7) different hues from a single picture of the plane. Wings are from another aircraft. At least 2009 there has been a good stock of this number: http://www.ipmsfinland.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18:varastotilanne&catid=14:yleist&Itemid=36Cheers, AaCee |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
66misos
|
|
« Reply #108 on: May 06, 2013, 11:27:36 PM » |
|
Hi, this should be that photo  No white discs on the wings. 66misos |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 09:00:19 AM by 66misos »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Saivila
Newbie
Posts: 49
|
|
« Reply #109 on: May 07, 2013, 05:08:29 AM » |
|
HI. Yes this is the IPMS magazine that i was talkin about. And about this photo, send by Misos. It's the one
of these i was talkin about. Released at least on Keskinen/ Stenmans "Russian Fighters". Old print only.
If i get that IPMS magazine i can post some pics. Allso some colour pics from this AC on storage, can be found
on old "Mobilisti" magazine from 1980s. But this magazine could be very hard to find.
Regards Saivila
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Massimo Tessitori
|
|
« Reply #110 on: May 07, 2013, 07:10:37 AM » |
|
Hi all, a photo from Tapani:  Regards Massimo |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
66misos
|
|
« Reply #111 on: May 07, 2013, 09:18:52 AM » |
|
Hi Massimo and Tapani, thanx for color picture. I have to admit that b&w picture shows P-39 no. "20" and "25" and color photo shows no. "26". So wings from "20" were without white discs under red stars and fuselage from "26" was with white discs. White color and reflection on the disk looks different from color and reflection of digits 26. Does that mean that digits 26 were silver? Red star in the white disc has outline darker than white and that outline exceeds circle boundaries. It looks like there was red star with white outline (like that one on the wings) and the white disc was added latter.  regards, 66misos |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
AC26
|
|
« Reply #112 on: May 07, 2013, 09:14:07 PM » |
|
thanx for color picture. I have to admit that b&w picture shows P-39 no. "20" and "25" and color photo shows no. "26". So wings from "20" were without white discs under red stars and fuselage from "26" was with white discs. White color and reflection on the disk looks different from color and reflection of digits 26. Does that mean that digits 26 were silver? Red star in the white disc has outline darker than white and that outline exceeds circle boundaries. It looks like there was red star with white outline (like that one on the wings) and the white disc was added latter. Hi Misos and all, Wings of the plane are from 44-3225 which was # 25. Source: Central-Finland Aviation Museum booklet of their museum planes. These wings have over painted white backgrounds of the roundels. # 26 is definitely silver. Stars are not outlined with white but with a difficult to explain silverish colour. Painting were done in following order<: standard Bell-practice red stars on white circles and after delivery silver and red edges added as well as dark green over painting of the white circle except underside which is greyish green. This is based seeing this plane several times. Cheers, AaCee |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
66misos
|
|
« Reply #113 on: May 07, 2013, 10:07:10 PM » |
|
Hi AaCee,
Is that greish green on underwings primer ALG-5, which was called also grey-green, heavily weatheted and scratched now?
66misos
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Saivila
Newbie
Posts: 49
|
|
« Reply #114 on: May 08, 2013, 06:41:52 PM » |
|
Hi.
That white disk on this very photo, LOOKS LIKE that it's made of paper or something like that. Could be somekind of
temporary marking, especially cause the star looks like it's bordered on yellow. I have no any idea why.
I don't believe that this aircraft never flied in this suit. My mate told me that the white disk was overpainted
on artists oil colours using brush.
Regards Saivila
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Massimo Tessitori
|
|
« Reply #115 on: May 08, 2013, 07:59:04 PM » |
|
Hi Saivila,
the star on this photo, you mean? For what I see, there is a lot of yellow around the plane. I don't know the exact colors of that place where the plane was photographed, but it ?s possible that this is due to a yellow dominance of the photo, or to the yellowish light reflected by the surroundings.
Regards
Massimo
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Saivila
Newbie
Posts: 49
|
|
« Reply #116 on: May 08, 2013, 09:59:18 PM » |
|
You are right. Lets say Colour pic with limited palette.
Regards Saivila
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
66misos
|
|
« Reply #117 on: May 15, 2013, 05:24:21 PM » |
|
Hi,
I want something that does not look like taken from candy box. Also P-39 even painted with OD and several different greens looks like camouflaged, not just protected against corrosion.
So woul replaced primer ALG-1 by standard camouflage colors - nitro and oil alternatives for both upper surface and underwings and put them all into one picture to better see difference for discussion purpose.
I checked colors from Albom Nakrasok. But they are too dark (on those pictures I have) and I did not want to do any color correction without defined white/grey/black reference.
So I took all VVS colors from AKAN page. Although those AKAN chips do not represent 100% real colors, the give at least idea how it could look while the plane appears camouflaged and not such de-masked as with primer ALG-1.
Plus I took new darker color for Neutral Grey from chips found on Internet. According to a lot of discussions NG was quite dark, on b&w photos could look sometines even darker than faded OD.
Your comments are welcome.
66misos
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 02:35:12 PM by 66misos »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Massimo Tessitori
|
|
« Reply #118 on: May 15, 2013, 07:39:04 PM » |
|
Hi Misos,
the drawing looks credible enough, at the best of our present knowledges. I would make the brown a bit lighter to increase the contrast as on the photo.
About A-18, I would exclude it because it was out of use since 1941. AMT-7 is possible, as A-28m or maybe AMT-11, that could be a match for the neutral grey. I would extend the repainting to the central section of the fuselage, if it's true that it was modified.
Regards
Massimo
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
KL
|
|
« Reply #119 on: May 15, 2013, 10:57:57 PM » |
|
Hi Misos,
I agree with Massimo: There is not enough contrast between your OD and AMT-1. Two colours seen in the movie are more contrasting. For me, this would be enough to exclude AMT-1 and A-21m.
IMHO, more you hypothesize, more subjective your conclusions are... And your interpretation becomes more debatable.
Regards,
KL
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
