Suchov's p-39 White 50

[KL]

Pilots from 16GIAP started to fly free hunting and scouting with bomb in March. After crossing front line they looked for targets, bombed it and continued in flight. Total 34 flights with bombs FAB-100 were performed by 15 pilots during March 1945.

It's actually a small number of flights:  only about one flight per day (if they flew 31 days?).
Relatively large number of pilots flew bombing missions - about 50% of all pilots in the regiment.

My conslusion:  those were familiarization/combat training flights.  Each pilot would make 1-2 flights and then the next pilot would do the same.  For this regiment needed 2-3 Airacobras equipped with bomb shackles.

P-39Q-25 N 44-32512 is supposed to be 16 giap Airacobra:

[66misos]

Hi KL,
thanks for a very interesting photo. Compare it with this one:



Very similar serial number: 44-32467 (432467), the first P-39Q-25 tested in SU vs. 44-32512 (432512). Difference only 45 planes from 700 planes subserie. Olive Drab on this one is not very faded, still significantly darker than Neutral Grey. Should be with red propeller spinner but without red stars on upperwings.

     66misos

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Misos,

Sukhov returned with damaged and burned plane. I saw how flames appeared when speed of plane decreased and how they disappeared when Sukhov started attack.

a fire in the nose? This could help to explain the vaste repaintings on the nose and sides.
Regards
Massimo

[KL]

Sukhov returned with damaged and burned plane. I saw how flames appeared when speed of plane decreased and how they disappeared when Sukhov started attack.

a fire in the nose? This could help to explain the vaste repaintings on the nose and sides.

Massimo,
check replies #41 and #42, page 3 of this thread...

Plane wasn't camouflaged, it was repaired after it was damaged in combat (seven holes from 20-mm shells).  It was hit in nose (ammunition drums) and in wings (fuel tanks), it burned but Suhov managed to land on a field with extended landing gear.
Regards,
KL

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,

Plane wasn't camouflaged

I've not written this, on this post at least. I wonder if it's possible that the fire was on the nose too.
Regards
Massimo

[66misos]

Hi Massimo,
I checked the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvA5T48Ff94&list=PLCdwQDWwZXDUMEyJd15rUOSS4NK8DuVku you posted in the thread about the winter camo on Galchenko's LaGG-3.
Very nice videos, in much better quality then those I already have. Thre are 4 parts, I made new screenshots from the 2nd part to see Sukhov's P-39 in better quality:

1.) note bridge over highway and no forrest behind. P-39 rolling with bomb (e.g. starting) under the bridge:


2.) seems to be different event - no bridge over highway, P-39 rolling with the bomb (e.g. starting) from the side road, forrest behind:
     

P-39 landed without the bomb:


Underwings repainted by glossy stuff. Was primer glossy or Matt? If Matt, then semigloss blue AMT-7 seems to be most probable.
Regards,
     66misos

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Misos,
excellent serie of images indeed. Seems that the plane has made a war flight.
Regards
Massimo

[66misos]

Hi Massimo,

if I look at the summary of events:
  - 25 February 1945, Sukhov?s plane was damaged,
  - Some pilots (hunters) start flying with bomb in March,
  - Sukhov flew again on March 3 and March 7.

I do not know now whether Pokryshkin in document film flew bombing test flight or it was kind of demonstration for film makers. I tend to preffer demonstration with known result (to film bomb explosion) rather than to film unknown result with potential plane damage.

IMHO that plane was camouflaged, not left in primer. I know different current primers, they all are hard matt or more less matt. Was ALG-1 also matt?

Regards,
     66misos

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Misos,
I think it was camouflaged too.
Regards
Massimo

[Troy Smith]

Hi

Photobucket is being a pain, so for ease of reference I've edited in the full size pictures.

Very interesting pics!
cheers
T

Hi Massimo,
I checked the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvA5T48Ff94&list=PLCdwQDWwZXDUMEyJd15rUOSS4NK8DuVku you posted in the thread about the winter camo on Galchenko's LaGG-3.
Very nice videos, in much better quality then those I already have. Thre are 4 parts, I made new screenshots from the 2nd part to see Sukhov's P-39 in better quality:

1.) note bridge over highway and no forrest behind. P-39 rolling with bomb (e.g. starting) under the bridge:



2.) seems to be different event - no bridge over highway, P-39 rolling with the bomb (e.g. starting) from the side road, forrest behind:





P-39 landed without the bomb:



Underwings repainted by glossy stuff. Was primer glossy or Matt? If Matt, then semigloss blue AMT-7 seems to be most probable.
Regards,
     66misos

[KL]

Misos/Massimo,
plane wasn't camouflaged - it wasn't camouflaged before being damaged and repaired (standard American OD/NG wasn't a "camouflage") and it wasn't camouflaged if damage/repairs were sprayed with olive green or light brown or any other colour.
You should first learn what was the definition of camouflage in RKKA.

Misos,
didn't you figure out the date when movie was taken?
It looks that the plane was repaired and modified to carry bomb in 1-2 days!!!  It was a very quick job - IMHO, in this case technician may have used what was available and they did not pay attention to colour matching or camouflage.
It is quite possible that the plane was filmed when Pokrishkin made a test flight (as it is stated in the movie) at the end of February.  Other pilots started with bombing missions after that, in March.

Regards,
KL  

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,
what I meant is that the plane could have been painted intentionally with some contrasting colors because the pilot wanted so, and intended as permanent; nothing to see with the definitions of RKKA. I would be marvelled if they didn't find a can of some usual dark green, the most likely color for repaintings over od. If it was only a repair, I don't see the meaning to have left a (supposedly) black nose. However, this (as the contrary) is undemonstrable with present documents.
Regards
Massimo

[66misos]

Hi,

1. Sukhov, Eskadrilja vedet boj:

25th February 1945...My plane is hit. A fire erupted on my fighter... flame is not throbbing now, only a thin stream of smoke coming out from the holes on the plane...I counted seven holes from 20-mm shells...
It is already end of March 1945. We operate from the highway. Once our soldiers detained paratrooper disguised in civilian clothes. Group of the documentarists led by the cameramen Litvinchuk Alexandrov worked at the airport. Cameras started on, the scene was captured immediately - and now you can see it in the movie "Pokryshkin in the sky."...

2. Pokryshkin, War Sky:

...Once in February we catch German spy... It was a day full of intense training ? shooting and bombing. Pairs of experienced pilots and novices exchanged on the starts. There was nonstop noise in the sky. Sukhov?s ?four? was in the sky. Sukhov shot down one plane.
There were film makers at our airfield that time.

When considering also other info or events description in both books, Sukhov's one seems to be closer to the reality/true.

...some usual dark green, the most likely color for repaintings over od...

Massimo, what dark green do you mean? Here http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1515.msg12493#msg12493 I tried to find some. At least AKAN 4BO is not dark, it is brighter than AMT-4.

...plane wasn't camouflaged - it wasn't camouflaged before being damaged and repaired (standard American OD/NG wasn't a "camouflage") and it wasn't camouflaged if damage/repairs were sprayed with olive green or light brown or any other colour...

KL, thanks for explanation. OK, let's say plane was not camouflaged, only painted with olive green or light brown or any other colour. Not left in primer.

Misos, didn't you figure out the date when movie was taken?
It looks that the plane was repaired and modified to carry bomb in 1-2 days!!!  It was a very quick job - IMHO, in this case technician may have used what was available and they did not pay attention to colour matching or camouflage.

I agree that soviet technicians worked very fast:

2nd september 1943, Sukhov attacking FW-189...Pieces flew around my plane. The following day I did not fly, I helped to mechanic with my plane. Half of the work is done. In the morning, I arrived at the airport together with others, and Yakovenko reported: The plane is ready to fly!

...It is quite possible that the plane was filmed when Pokrishkin made a test flight (as it is stated in the movie) at the end of February.  Other pilots started with bombing missions after that, in March.

IMHO, Pokryshkin in document film (that time triple HSU) is filmed during bombing demonstration for propaganda and/or "front news" for Soviet cinemas, or something like that. Not testing flight.

Regards,
     66misos

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Misos,
I mean the usual greens, nothing new.

25th February 1945...My plane is hit. A fire erupted on my fighter... flame is not throbbing now, only a thin stream of smoke coming out from the holes on the plane...I counted seven holes from 20-mm shells...
It is already end of March 1945. We operate from the highway. Once our soldiers detained paratrooper disguised in civilian clothes. Group of the documentarists led by the cameramen Litvinchuk Alexandrov worked at the airport. Cameras started on, the scene was captured immediately - and now you can see it in the movie "Pokryshkin in the sky."...

So, according to Suchov's report, it had passed a month between the damaging and the movie.

IMHO, Pokryshkin in document film (that time triple HSU) is filmed during bombing demonstration for propaganda and/or "front news" for Soviet cinemas, or something like that. Not testing flight.

If so, Suchov's plane could have been choosen because it was interesting to see, not because it was repaired in a hurry.

Regards
Massimo

[KL]

When considering also other info or events description in both books, Sukhov's one seems to be closer to the reality/true.

So, the date when movie was made is not known...   
According to Tabachenko's book, section of Berlin - Breslau highway was used by 16 giap as a runway from February 18 to April 14 1945.  Regiment and its planes were actually based at the nearby Aslau airfield.

Table on pages 640-642 is interesting; it looks that first bombing missions (called "free hunt") were made by a pair Koryaev - Tsvetkov on March 3rd and March 4th.  There was no bombing missions by March 13 and then, after this pause, between 1 and 5 P-39s were sent to bombing missions almost daily.  Pokrishkin didn't fly any bombing missions in March 1945.

Information on Pg 614 can be related to Suhov's P-39:
"Airacobra P-39M-1 No 24926 disassembled for spare parts due to wear and tear on February 25, 1945."   Same day when Suhov landed his damaAged/burned P-39...

what I meant is that the plane could have been painted intentionally with some contrasting colors because the pilot wanted so, and intended as permanent...

Massimo, forget those Pilawskii style theories ? VVS pilots did not have any say in plane colours.  It was a regiment commander who signed off if plane was a writeoff or it could be repaired.  It was also regiment commander who could order bomb shackles installed on a repaired plane.

 

Suchov's plane could have been chosen because it was interesting to see, not because it was repaired in a hurry.

Colours didn?t matter since it was a black-and ?white movie.  This plane was chosen because it was one of the few that could carry a bomb.
Regards
KL