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Author Topic: Question on weathering  (Read 16819 times)
KL
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« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2013, 05:42:56 PM »

From Model Airplane International - June 2007
What really catched my attention is author's statement:

"The paints used by the VVS were Casein or similar oil-based paints and these were very prone to high rates of wear"

How does author know this?
 
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learstang
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« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2013, 07:42:13 PM »

It's hard to tell if he were just referring to the white distemper MK-7, which was casein based.  MK-7 did indeed weather quickly.  However, casein is not oil, such as that used in oil-based paints, but a protein derived from milk, that is used, amongst other things, as a glue (white-glue, such as Elmer's).  

Regards,

Jason
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KL
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« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2013, 10:47:23 PM »

It's hard to tell if he were just referring to the white distemper MK-7, which was casein based.  MK-7 did indeed weather quickly.  However, casein is not oil, such as that used in oil-based paints, but a protein derived from milk, that is used, amongst other things, as a glue (white-glue, such as Elmer's).  

He says "paints" (plural) as if several paints were casein based.  He also doesn't mention nitro paints; those were actually the most widely used by VVS.  Yak-1 was definitively painted with AMT nitro paints.
All this shows that author doesn't know much about VVS paints.  IMHO, his note about weathering is 100% made up.

BTW, author of the text is Francisco Soldat from Spain...  Smiley

Regards,
KL   
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4bogreen
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« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2013, 04:32:29 AM »

I think the author has gone wild on washes on his model  Undecided My MiG is definitely not going to look like this. Everywere he found a panel  lining, the brown/black oil oozes out  Tongue A clear example how NOT to wash your model. It looks if the fabric parts rust and the aluminium parts ''bleed oil''  Shocked shocking  Shocked

IMHO on a white plane, use a filter instead of a heavy wash. Filters are more subtle and better to build up then just ''slam'' a dark wash on it.

On my MiG, i focus more on the difference in metal/wood parts. Maybe some chips on the area's were the groundcrew came for maintenance, or were the pilot get in/walked on...On the photo i have it looks in good condition, so i have to be careful with my weathering.

But hey, i still have to build my first plane  Roll Eyes Look who's talking Tongue
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B_Realistic
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« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2013, 08:58:29 AM »

Francisco Soldan is a well known Spanish modeler who also builds military.
The way of weathering his models I like alot.
But that's more in an artists point of view then reality.
@KL
I presume that he only means for MK-7 and if not he's wrong.
@4bogreen
The weathering of the white is good but the darker panellines is not a good representation and overdone. It was better that the underneath camo became more visible. The forward leading edge has been done that way.

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66misos
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« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2013, 12:07:03 PM »

Hi,
Quote
the darker panellines is not a good representation and overdone
Here I would say that not all panel lines are the same.
IMHO, such apparent panel lines (not rusty brown, but rather of camo color) could by OK around panels that are manipulated, ofter removed and fixing back - engine covers, different service openings etc.
In all other cases, I agree, it is too much.

     66misos
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B_Realistic
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« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2013, 02:30:58 PM »

Hi,
Quote
the darker panellines is not a good representation and overdone
Here I would say that not all panel lines are the same.
IMHO, such apparent panel lines (not rusty brown, but rather of camo color) could by OK around panels that are manipulated, ofter removed and fixing back - engine covers, different service openings etc.
In all other cases, I agree, it is too much.

     66misos

That's correct but in this case it's a bit overdone altough I like the appearance of it. There can be some brown colors special where there is some maintenance or wear. The way I've made my Il-2 was a mix between reality and making it more appealing for the eye.
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jonbius
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« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2013, 01:21:07 AM »

Hi friends- help me with this photo.

Is the weathering around the wing roots dirt, chipped paint, or what? I'm not sure what the composition of the airplane in that area is- metal or wood?



Thanks for any assistance!

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Jon Bius
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66misos
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« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2013, 06:33:36 AM »

Hi Jonbius,

according to the drawings in MBI book Lavockin La-5 there was only fabric on the wing roots at La-5 and La-5F. Metal panels on the wing roots were installed at La-5FN and La-7.
So I would say it is mainly chipped paint, e.g. yellowish primer or even wood is visible. And all that dirty and dusty, but no layer of mud like on the tanks.

     66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2013, 06:51:29 AM »

Hi Jon, hi Misos
the wingroot was wooden, and the fillets too (the fillets became metallic on La-7 only). I can exclude that the wearing shows natural metal there.
I think that the wood was covered by a layer of fabric as on other types, but I could be wrong.
If it's chipped paint, I suppose that the underlying color was yellowish as visible on a piece of LaGG-3 fuselage in Finland.

I can't exclude that the scratches could show a further underlying layer of aluminium dope, but I don't think because I suppose that the yellow putty adesion to the fabric was strong.  
It could also be dirt.
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2013, 07:04:59 AM »

I'm not sure there would be any wood showing, as that would mean the yellow putty-impregnated fabric covering the wood had been completely worn away.  This would be dangerous as this could cause the fabric to become detached from the wood whilst in the air (the fabric could separate from the wood and "balloon").  This actually happened to various aircraft, including the Il-2, because of a problem with the fabric not adhering properly to the wood (due to a problem with the putty used on the fabric, I believe).  However, I agree that the paint might very well wear away enough to show the yellow of the fabric.  

Regards,

Jason
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4bogreen
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« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2013, 08:05:49 AM »

Hi All  Cheesy

I generally agree with the saying above. The are imho chips... Strange, Because the order was given to imediatley repaint the wooden area's if these came visible. This is a very intersting photo. Most interesting is maybe not the wing root but the rear windowframe. Its a aluminum kind of color. This says a lot of maintenance on this airplane. All aluminium parts look a bit worn...

Another theory is that the chips are created by leaking oil, hot exhaust fumes and spilled fuel. Although they rub it off when fuel spilled, maybe they rub it arround and causes the paint to let loose on that particular area  Huh

My two cents on this one...
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- T-34 STZ 1942 early (Cyberhobby)
- T-14 Armata (Revell)
66misos
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« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2013, 09:04:56 AM »

Hi,
I agree with Learstang, I take back possibility of the visible wood. Wink
As far as I know, that protecting metal plate behind exhaust was removed regularly - every time when ammunition was loaded etc. so quite a "heavy traffic" was on that part of the wing.

     66misos
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jonbius
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« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2013, 02:39:07 PM »

Good information- thanks everyone!

Is there a chart of the various VVS aircraft that shows what various parts were made up of? That would be helpful to see color-coded profiles.
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Jon Bius
agapemodels.com
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learstang
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« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2013, 05:36:12 PM »

Good information- thanks everyone!

Is there a chart of the various VVS aircraft that shows what various parts were made up of? That would be helpful to see color-coded profiles.

Jon, I have one of the Il-2 - maybe I'll do it as a post here, or a separate post - perhaps we could have a separate topic where these colour-coded profiles are added (I can't do it right at the moment - computer problems - I'm using someone else's computer now).

Regards,

Jason
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