Names for planes?

[jonbius]

Did the VVS ever give names, official or unofficial, to it's aircraft in WWII? For example, the US had the Mustang, Thunderbolt, Corsair, etc. as official names. And some unofficial names popped up from time to time, such as "Jug" for the P-47.

Anyway, I've been wondering if the Yaks, Lavochkins, etc., had names, like the IL2 did. (Was its name official?)

[KL]

No, VVS didn't give names to their aircraft in WWII.
Officially aircraft type was designated after the design bureau (first two letters of chief designer's last name) and it was given a number:  odd for fighters, even for bombers.  Correct VVS designations are, for example, La-7 or Il-2.

Aircraft names like "Lavochkin La-7" or "Ilyushin Il-2" are not correct.  Designer?s full name was not used as part of VVS aircraft designation.

Shturmovik is not a name of any particular plane type.  It is a general name for attack planes.  Same as "Stuka" in German.  Shturmovik is now associated with Il-2, but it was actually used for all ground attack planes from R-5Sh to Su-25.

[learstang]

The official VVS naming system was very simple; after 1940 (mid-December or so) they normally used the initials of the designer(s), followed by a number relating to the model that OKB had first built.  As an example, MiG-1 - this was the first of the series of aircraft designed by Artem Mikoyan and Mikhail Guerevich (the next being the much more famous MiG-3).  Notice the number skips "2" - Soviet practice was to reserve odd numbers for fighters - LaGG-3, Yak-9, La-7, etc., and even numbers for everything else - U-2 (Po-2 after Nikolay Polikarpov died), Li-2, Il-4, etc.  That's pretty much it.  There don't seem to have been any kind of official nicknames, although of course they gained unofficial nicknames over time such as the famous "Shturmovik", which name initially just referred to all ground attack aeroplanes, but came to be associated with the Il-2.  Generally, however, the aircraft were referred to by their service designation; for example, the Il-2 was simply the "eel-dvah", the Russian pronunciation for "Il-2".  I suspect Konstantin (KL) can shed more light on this subject, but this is what I know just from the top of my head.

Regards,

Jason

P.S.  Whilst I was writing this, looks like KL beat me to it.

[jonbius]

Thanks! That is good information. Now that you mention it, I had noticed fighters were odd numbers... cool.

Why weren't the I-15 and I-16 called the Po-15 and Po-16? (Or Po-17! )

[KL]

Why weren't the I-15 and I-16 called the Po-15 and Po-16? (Or Po-17! )

Different naming system in 1930es!  Planes were grouped by their task into fighters, bombers etc. In each group they started with 1 and then each new type would get a consecutive number.  The sistem was similar to USAAF's system (P for fighters, B for bombers).  In the Soviet's 1930es system:

I - fighters
R - recognisance planes
TB - heavy bombers
DB - long range bombers

For example, I-16 is correct.
Polikarpov I-16 is not correct.  Designer's last name was not used.
Polikarpov I-16 Type 5 is not correct.  Type 5 was factory aircraft designation.
Polikarpov I-16 Rata is not correct.  Rata was name used by Germans, Italians and Spanish nationalsts.

[John Thompson]

Why weren't the I-15 and I-16 called the Po-15 and Po-16? (Or Po-17! )

They were put into production before the system of designations was changed. Despite the fact that the I-16 continued in production past that date, the designation was retained for consistency, I suppose. The "I" (for istrebitel = destroyer) designation continued after 1940 for use on fighter prototypes - there are many, many examples including the MiG-15, whose prototype designation was I-310. Another thing to be aware of is that the design bureaus (OKBs) didn't actually build their own aircraft - under the Soviet system, construction was assigned to specific manufacturing plants (zavoda) by the Ministry of Aviation as a central planning function.

John

[jonbius]

Thanks to both of you for that information! I'd seen several instances of the "I" designation used in conjunction with prototypes as I'd read about different aircraft, and wondered what that was about.

Didn't know that about production & factories either, though that makes sense under that system now that you mention it.

[KL]

Another thing to be aware of is that up to 1943 there were no special designations for subtypes.  There were no letters after the number - nothing like P-39B, P-39C, P-39D etc.

All I-16s made from 1935 to 1941 were designated as I-16 only.  Engines changed, armament changed but this was not reflected in the official VVS designation. If necessary engine type was added after I-16 so it became for example I-16 M-62.  I-16s armed with two machine guns were called two-point I-16s, those armed with four MGs were called four-point I-16.

There is no official name for Yak-1 with lowered back.  In production it was known as Model 1943, but for VVS it was Yak-1 same as before.

[Walker]

Not exactly. In the system of the USSSR aviation industry except aircraft designations were given in design bureau has been used to record types. A striking example of such a system is such aircraft Frolov  7211 plane, had not received the name in the design bureau "I-***" and carried a clean factory designation 7211. Type 7, Plant 21, unit 1.

[KL]

Prototypes and their designations are a separate case.  Most prototypes were ordered, funded and owned by the Ministry of Aviation, not by the Air Force.  Because of this, prototypes were named by the design bureaus, not by the Air Force.  Different bureaus had different naming practices.
The fact that prototypes were owned by the ministry was usually reflected in colours and markings:  prototypes were painted like racing planes with all kinds of trims or as civilian planes (plain gray).  Red stars (Air Force markings) were usually absent on prototypes.

... Frolov  7211 plane, had not received the name in the design bureau "I-***" and carried a clean factory designation 7211. Type 7, Plant 21, unit 1.

This is a good illustration for the meaning of the "Type":  it was an internal, factory designation for aircraft type/subtype.  "Type" designations haven't been used by the Air Force. Some of the "Types" produced by Zavod 21 (Gorkiy/Nizhni Novgorod) include:

Type 5 = I-16 M-25 and 2xShKAS
Type 6 = I-5 two-seater
Type 7 = Frolov 7211 prototype
...
Type 10 = I-16 M-25B and 4xShKAS
...
Type 31 = LaGG-3
...
Type 39 = La-5FN

Conclusion:  Type is a factory designation, I-16 or LaGG-3 are Air Force (VVS) designations...

[jonbius]

KL, did this present problems from a logistics standpoint? For instance, if a part was ordered, and it was different for certain Types, how was that designated for spare parts, etc.?

Also, I understand what you're saying regarding the Type designations. Does that extend to the letter designations added on? For example, I have models for a La-5 and an La-5FN. Would the "FN" designation have been used, or was that a factory designation?

Very interesting information- thank you all for answering my questions!

[KL]

Also, I understand what you're saying regarding the Type designations. Does that extend to the letter designations added on? For example, I have models for a La-5 and an La-5FN. Would the "FN" designation have been used, or was that a factory designation?

From 1943  VVS did start to use letters for subtypes: for example Yak-9D.  Letter D is actually abreviations for dalnii (long range).

[John Thompson]

Also, I understand what you're saying regarding the Type designations. Does that extend to the letter designations added on? For example, I have models for a La-5 and an La-5FN. Would the "FN" designation have been used, or was that a factory designation?

In the case of the La-5, La-5F, and La-5FN, the letters are engine designators. The La-5F had the ASh-82F (also known as M-82F), which was an improved version of the carbureted ASh-82 with better cooling and lubrication. The La-5FN had the ASh-FN engine which used direct fuel injection instead of the carburetor.

Usually the La-5F and La-5FN had distinctive Cyrillic logos on the cowling (and sometimes also on the fin, certainly in the case of the La-7, which had the FN engine):
La-5F - Ф for ASh-82F (АШ-82Ф in Cyrillic), applied as the letter alone
La-5FN - ФН for ASh-82FN (АШ-82ФН in Cyrillic), applied inside a diamond-shaped border

John

[Walker]

True, noticed. But La-5F were known early with high back for the canopy, and the recent low.
Designation in both the Red Army Air Force planes went as La-5F. A factory- types: typ37, typ 39...



typ37 - early La-5F, typ 39 late La-5F, typ 41 La-5FN

[KL]

type 37 = early La-5F
type 39 = late La-5F
type 41 = La-5FN

Thanks for the corection and additional information Musa! 
Is this "Spravochnik" available for download anywhere?
Cheers,
KL