South Front Yak-1

[Seawinder]

Thanks, M and K. I'll go with no outlines above and below.

Pip

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Pip,
if you let us know the plane, we can look for photos to be sure.

Black outline was supposed to disappear from stars in summer 1941.

The question was specific: Yak-1 only.  Yak-7 was obviously defferent.

Your statement was general, not relative to Yak-1 only.

Regards
Massimo

[KL]

Black outline was supposed to disappear from stars in summer 1941.

The question was specific: Yak-1 only.  Yak-7 was obviously defferent.

Your statement was general, not relative to Yak-1 only.

The stress is on supposed to.  In reality factories complied to a various degree to the instructions that were not clear.

- Factory in Saratov (Yak-1 producer) applied stars with no black borders
- Factory in Novosibirsk (Yak-7 producer) continued with black borders

HTH,
KL

[Dark Green Man]

2. Of the 13 markings options for 2nd production series planes (with the small, half-round windows behind the cockpit), only 5 are shown with radio masts. Were they really so seldom found on machines in 1942?

Pip

machines of series 49 would have the early canopy type and radio aerial wires ,but no mast.
(Avdeev's early Yak-1 is like this)
I do not know exactly what series introduced the the plywood panel with two small windows.
one machine was tested from series 55 (3855) in November 41 that had skis, and this 'mid-production' canopy.
to give some context ski-equipped machines were only manufactured from November '41 to February 25 1942.
I do not have an exact date or series number for the radio mast and I would not be surprised if it was not fitted to all machines in any gives series.

it has been discovered to be standard practice at Zavod 292 (where Yak-1's were made) to only use plain red stars on the fuselage and under the wings.

[Seawinder]

Hi Pip,
if you let us know the plane, we can look for photos to be sure.
Regards
Massimo

Well, actually I've got a confession: I'm working on two Yak-1s. One is the South Front kit. The other is the Accurate Miniatures kit, but with the Alpha Flight conversion set that corrects the width of the cockpit opening and canopy. For one I'm leaning toward Baranov's Red 1, which from the kit profile had the orthodox camouflage scheme in normal colors (black at the nose). For the other one I'd like to do a plane that had the colors reversed, possibly Homyakova's White 42. Incidentally, neither of these planes is shown with radio mast (there are several good photos of Baranov's plane that confirm that). Would there still have been antenna wires, and if so, where would they have been attached to the fuselage?

Pip

[KL]

it has been discovered to be standard practice at Zavod 292 (where Yak-1's were made) to only use plain red stars on the fuselage and under the wings.

Discovered?  Who made the discovery, when and how?? 

[66misos]

Hi,
I have question about under surface color also for Baranov's Yak-1.

This is picture from AMD Decals sheet (still in plastic bag) showing Baranov's plane from 1942:


This was written here http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1536.msg11703#msg11703:

... AMT-4/6 camo was introduced exactly the day of the war outbreak.
...it is likely that they continued to use AII light blue instead of AMT-7 on many planes.

...AMT-7 was introduced in 1942...

Number of victory stars shows that plane was not new but already existed some time in summer 1942.
What blue color should be used - AII Blue or AMT-7?

It this:

the same plane as from the decal sheet?

    66misos

[Seawinder]

Great photo, Misos! That certainly looks like the same plane as on the decal sheet, and it doesn't appear to have any antenna wires.

I've just ordered a copy of the AML sheet. It'll be interesting to see how they interpret the starboard inscription. South Front has it in red except for the last letter (white) that's on top of the star. There are two photos at this site:

http://www.rkka.es/Otros_articulos/30_Mijail_Baranov/001_Mijail_Baranov.htm

The first of them make it appear that South Front got it right. The second is more ambiguous to my eye.

Pip

[Seawinder]

Hi,
I have question about under surface color also for Baranov's Yak-1.
What blue color should be used - AII Blue or AMT-7?
66misos

I have the very same question. Do you suppose anybody has an answer?

Pip

[KL]

... AMT-4/6 camo was introduced exactly the day of the war outbreak.
...it is likely that they continued to use AII light blue instead of AMT-7 on many planes.

...AMT-7 was introduced in 1942...

Orlov writes exactly what Massimo says!    AII light blue and AMT-7 were used in parallel for some time.  Technical requirements for AMT-4 and AMT-6 appeared in the begining of July 1941.  Technical requirements for AMT-7 appeared 1-2 months later in August.

AII light blue was found on several wrecks (Vesivehmaa LaGG-3 for example), so period of parallel use was quite longer than summer 1941.
HTH,
KL

[66misos]

Hi KL,
Thanks for reply.
However, your recommendation for Baranov's Yak-1 would be AII Blue or AMT-7 for summer 1942?
     66misos

[Seawinder]

Hi KL,
Thanks for reply.
However, your recommendation for Baranov's Yak-1 would be AII Blue or AMT-7 for summer 1942?
     66misos

Well, Misos, the silence is deafening. My guess is there's no conclusive answer to the question, so it's just you and I on our own with this decision. Which way are you leaning? Given the number of victories Baronov had already achieved by mid-1942, the plane probably dates from early in the year, if not late 1941. Perhaps AII Blue makes more sense?

The same may also be true of Homyakova's White 42, but I'll probably go with AMT-7 for that one just to show the different schemes possible.

Pip

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Pip. hi all,

Number of victory stars shows that plane was not new but already existed some time in summer 1942.

It could also be that they reported on this plane some marks of victories obtained from a previous one.

I have found a photo of a supposedly similar plane

Here we see the lightened reflex of the gear door on the wing undersurface. This suggests the use of a gossy light blue, and is in favour of the AII one.
By the way, this one has the reversed camouflage, pity that the bort number is not readable.

Regards
Massimo

[Apex1701]

Hi all,

By the way, this one has the reversed camouflage, pity that the bort number is not readable.

I think it's Pavlov's white 15.
There's a second picture of the same here:
http://airfield.narod.ru/yak/yak-1/yak-1_color.html

Jean

[Massimo Tessitori]

Thank you Jean, it's surely the same plane.
Regards
Massimo