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Author Topic: Akan Greens  (Read 13864 times)
66misos
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« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2013, 08:31:48 PM »

Hi,
I wonder how big is that difference. It was written in Sukhov's P-39 thread that at least at plastic kit painted by modeller paints all three colors 4BO, AMT-4 and A-24m should look the same. For that P-39 repainting I would preffer color of AMT-4  rather than 4BO. At least based on these photos  Huh

    66misos
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Seawinder
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« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2013, 09:05:12 PM »

Hi,
I wonder how big is that difference. It was written in Sukhov's P-39 thread that at least at plastic kit painted by modeller paints all three colors 4BO, AMT-4 and A-24m should look the same. For that P-39 repainting I would preffer color of AMT-4  rather than 4BO. At least based on these photos  Huh

    66misos

Hi Misos. The difference of the two Akan colors was what led me to start the thread in the first place since I had been informed by KL that 4BO and AMT-4 were virtually identical.

Cheers,
Pip
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66misos
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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2013, 09:34:00 AM »

Hi,
under influence of discoussions above I airbushed my SF Yak-1 with AKAN water acrylics 4BO. I was pleased with the result so I compared it to AKAN water acrylics AMT-4:

- both paints are almost 2 years old, so no latest/actual editions,
- both paints were thinned with Tamiya thinner for acrylics paint,
- both paints were airbrushed thick enough to fully cover underlying surface colors - I want to get their real appearance without influence of the undelying colors. That is why I do not use preshading,
- photo was taken in interior with indirect sun light without any lamp/flash.

As you can see they look almost identical. In reality it seems that 4BO is a very little bit brighter than AMT-4, may be it is only optical illusion, it is not evident on this photo.
Interestingly no such difference between greens as in the AKAN acrylic lacquer 1941-43 package - 4BO and AMT-4 as seen in Seawinder's post on April 30, 2013, 05:37:40 PM.

     66misos
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Seawinder
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« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2013, 04:05:10 PM »

Hi,
under influence of discussions above I airbushed my SF Yak-1 with AKAN water acrylics 4BO. I was pleased with the result so I compared it to AKAN water acrylics AMT-4:
(snip)
As you can see they look almost identical. In reality it seems that 4BO is a very little bit brighter than AMT-4, may be it is only optical illusion, it is not evident on this photo.
Interestingly no such difference between greens as in the AKAN acrylic lacquer 1941-43 package - 4BO and AMT-4 as seen in Seawinder's post on April 30, 2013, 05:37:40 PM.

     66misos

Hi Misos. Thanks for posting that. The two colors do indeed look virtually identical -- nothing like the difference between the acrylic lacquer colors. Also, although it could be because of photographic differences, they appear a bit less green (more olive-yellow), perhaps somewhere in between the acrylic lacquer AMT-4 and 4BO.

Cheers,
Pip
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66misos
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« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2013, 04:43:17 PM »

Hi Pip,
yes, those colors look slightly different in reality. And differently on smartphone, notebook or big monitor. But not so different as those lacuers AMT-4 and 4BO. I do not understand. Huh
But my intention was to show how similiar are those color in "my" case regardless absolute color. I will spray them both side by side to beter see similarity or difference.

    66misos
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66misos
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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2013, 04:37:08 PM »

Hi,
as promissed I made another test chip - AKAN 4BO airbrushed directly side-by-side to AKAN AMT-4:


Pic#1 - sun light on the table but chip in the shadow,
Pic#2 - colors in the direct sun light,
Pic#3 - no direct sun light in the room.

All 3 pictures were made in time frame 15 minutes with the same camera (but with auto setup) without interior lamp. Only difference was in the presence of the direct sun light and it was enough to get significantly different results.
It is apparent now that acrylics AKAN 4BO is brighter than acrylics AKAN AMT-4 in all 3 cases. Previous photo with 4BO on plane wing did not show it.

     66misos
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Seawinder
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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2013, 06:30:49 PM »

It is apparent now that acrylics AKAN 4BO is brighter than acrylics AKAN AMT-4 in all 3 cases. Previous photo with 4BO on plane wing did not show it.

     66misos


Hi Misos.
Thanks again for taking the time to do the photos. The difference between the aqueous acrylic AMT-4 and 4BO, while obviously there, is seemingly more a matter of darkness-lightness, while the difference between the acrylic lacquer versions is of hue as well. I think, perhaps, the two versions of 4BO aren't that far apart, but the acrylic lacquer version of AMT-4 is greener than the aqueous acrylic version. None of which is going to keep me from using the acrylic lacquer AMT-4 on my La-5 (whenever that gets started).

Cheers,
Pip
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xan
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« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2014, 05:46:04 PM »

Hi ,
I copare either my acqus akan green , to represent AIIZ color...
the akan AII green seems very dark tome, an d perhaps I will choose the AMT-4 one .
Anyway they are all in the same shade, and I imagine that like all other paint, AIIZ faded as time past...



Xan
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2014, 09:28:31 PM »

Hi Xan, I think that the dark shade is good for a prewar I-16 with Russian colors.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2014, 09:40:44 PM »

Hi Xan,
pre-war I-16 look quite dark, although it is tricky to make decisions according to the bw photos. Aii-Z was really darker, compare also Mig-3 and La(GG0 wing fragments (Aii-Z vs. AMT-4) in Finland museum, photos also at mig3 pages.
IMHO, Akan Aii-Z would be better choice.
Regards,
   66misos
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xan
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« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2014, 12:08:36 AM »

I think that the dark shade is good for a prewar I-16 with Russian colors.
Hi Massimo, pre war green yes , but wich one?
There have been two...

before 1937 there was a green who was according to Konstantin very dark , like the RLM 83.
It's the color I used for the I-15 I did , and for the I-16 I'm doing...







according to Orlov and Vakhlamov article in mister hobby wroten in 2006, ther was a new circular (?) in febrery of 1937 (No.133580c ) signed by  general Alexandrov about "general paints for aircraft" destinated to all VVS plane factory.

in this circular, they speak about green and aluminium colors.

so it is a new green, the AIIz and I imagine the A-19f for metal parts...

the changement were not apply at once, but more in 1938....

the AII green didn't change until 1941.

in 2013 turists found a I-16 near what was the north front:

this metal part has to be A-19f (the piece is wet, but we can see ? dry part)
but perhpas it is AMT-4 Huh



that's why I imagine the AII green more olive green and lighter  akan did...

I did this I-15bis with AMT-4 akan, and I'm quite satisfied with the result



I'm doing another Chinese I-16 type 10, and I wanted to show the diference between the two green, but My choise is not done,
and may be misos and Massimo you are right...

I have to do more tests

Xan
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 12:15:49 AM by xan » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2014, 06:39:57 AM »

Hi Xan,
green paints often become brighter with the ageing because the green chromium oxyde pigment is more stable than other ones in the mix.
Of course, it can be that AII green becomes lighter, but probably it lost its glossy finish with ageing, and the same with the colors of the markings.
Regards
Massimo
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xan
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« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2014, 07:01:24 PM »

I finaly choose the AIIz akan ( An old fidelity story with akanine ;-) )



compare with akn AMT-4:



and green before 1937:



the two I-16:

the type 5 won't stay flat...
Iit is only the first paint I have now to weathered it...
(I still find it dark...)
Xan
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 07:02:57 PM by xan » Logged

learstang
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« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2014, 07:17:24 PM »

That is dark, but great work as always, Xan! Tres bien!

Regards,

Jason
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xan
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« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2014, 09:35:40 PM »

thank you my lord, but the real work start now...
Xan
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