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Overall colour on La-9/11/15/17, Yak-9P (1948)
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Author Topic: Overall colour on La-9/11/15/17, Yak-9P (1948)  (Read 17864 times)
Troy Smith
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« on: April 30, 2013, 09:55:37 PM »

HI

A question got asked on Hyperscale
http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1367264818/What+is+a+good+color+match+for+the+overall+gray+used+on+La-11s+in+USSR+and+China-nt

I looked at the paint charts, and get two answers
the overall color is the   A-36g,  gloss light grey-blue, or  PF-36m  matt light grey-blue, use 'Overall  La-9/11/15/17, Yak-9P (1948)' but it has some question marks?

Also, there is no FS595 'match' for either.  I know I asked about this colour sometime, for use of a Yak-15, i thought here but it seems not [probably on ARC] as I think John Thompson gave me a paint match,  
[FS 16495 light grey??  I bought some Xtracrylix of this colour, but this might be a match for Pearl grey as used on early US jets, but I'd have to do some digging to check this]

Any comments or suggestions on this?
 
As I have not found an answer here, i thought it worth a thread, as reference if nothing else.

I think it's the overall color that the preserved Yak-15 is in,
http://walkarounds.airforce.ru/avia/rus/yak/yak-15/index.htm
though it was possibly repainted in the 70's, like their Yak-9?

there are a few colour pics here of Yak-9P's taken in Korea
http://kevsaviationpics.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Yak-9

bort 49






bort *2


This one is of a hangar, note the IL-10 behind, I've seen a pic of this IL-10 as well,
[posssibly on VVS hobbyvista, Pilawskii using it as an example of colour.]



cheers
T
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 10:03:20 PM by Troy Smith » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2013, 10:38:13 PM »

Hi Troy,
in this page there are chips of AMT-16, AGT-16 and A-36g and FS matches. http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/color-table.html
The shade of AMT-16 (or AGT-16) cames from Akanihin himself, photographed side by side with a page of FS-595; the A-36g was extrapolated from this, supposing that it had the same pigments but a more yellowish medium.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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Posts: 1678


« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2013, 11:50:39 PM »

From hyperscale thread:

Quote
Look at some of the captured Yak-9 color shots circulating on the web. I cannot assure you that they were painted similarly but they certainly look the same in color and b/w photos. I think they look light ghost gray, perhaps with a blueish tint. I really think this is totally subjective as the planes differed from factory to factory and some were field painted with whatever was lying around, especially in China and North Korea.

Typical asumptions (author says I really think  Cheesy)

For practical purposes La-9 and La-11 were made in one factory: Factory 21 (Gorkiy, now Nizhniy Novgorod).  Out of about 3,000 planes made, only 75 were made at Factory 99. All remaining La-9 and La-11 were made at Factory 21.

Photos of captured planes confirm that planes were in original Soviet colours.  Hyperscale frum member still thinks that some were field painted with whatever was lying around.  Grin

Regards,
KL
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Troy Smith
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Posts: 386


« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2013, 05:00:06 AM »

Hi Troy,
in this page there are chips of AMT-16, AGT-16 and A-36g and FS matches. http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/color-table.html
The shade of AMT-16 (or AGT-16) cames from Akanihin himself, photographed side by side with a page of FS-595; the A-36g was extrapolated from this, supposing that it had the same pigments but a more yellowish medium.
Regards
Massimo

Thanks Massimo

now I look at the page again when I'm not tired it's clearer, but may I suggest adding a footnote to showing the link between these paints,  as the A-36g list the types painted, as does the PF-36m, but no FS595 matches, while  there are  FS 595 matches are shown for AMT-16 and AGT-16, but not type use, now, I know there is mention of the different uses at the top of the table, but it can easily be missed.

I presume the section on camouflage in this era is a work in progress, I would certainly like to know more.
 
Apart from AKAN are there other model paint matches?

From hyperscale thread:

Quote
Look at some of the captured Yak-9 color shots circulating on the web. I cannot assure you that they were painted similarly but they certainly look the same in color and b/w photos. I think they look light ghost gray, perhaps with a blueish tint. I really think this is totally subjective as the planes differed from factory to factory and some were field painted with whatever was lying around, especially in China and North Korea.

Typical asumptions (author says I really think  Cheesy)

For practical purposes La-9 and La-11 were made in one factory: Factory 21 (Gorkiy, now Nizhniy Novgorod).  Out of about 3,000 planes made, only 75 were made at Factory 99. All remaining La-9 and La-11 were made at Factory 21.

Photos of captured planes confirm that planes were in original Soviet colours.  Hyperscale frum member still thinks that some were field painted with whatever was lying around.  Grin

Regards,
KL

HI Konstantin

I did mention that I doubted the in-field repaint.   I now also notice the assumptions made after 50 years of cold war propaganda still linger....
It was a quick reply on my part, and threads quickly disappear there.
Thanks for some hard information on the L-9 and La-11. very useful, I'll add a link to this thread there for anyone who might stumble across it later.

getting away from ignorance about the VVS,  I was about to reply to Massimo's post when the site told me an new reply had been added,  can you shed any light on the various grey-blue paints listed above and their use?

cheers
T

I
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2013, 07:34:41 AM »

Hi Troy,
Quote
I presume the section on camouflage in this era is a work in progress, I would certainly like to know more.

Yes, I have still to work on these pages. Maybe I'll divide the table into more pages. Besides I have to reduce the amount of photos on the page on painting, moving many of them into pages dedicated to a single type. For now, I have to finish the work on the Il-2.

Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2013, 08:54:05 PM »

Quote
can you shed any light on the various grey-blue paints listed above and their use?

Hi Troy,
first check my post at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1136.15  Wink

Paints introduced in 1947-48 (AMT-16, AGT-16, A-36g, PF-36m and PF-36g) were all the same colour - grayish blue.  Letter m stands for matt, g for glossy.  First two were nitro paints for fabric, A-36 was oil paint for metal, PF were pentaphtal oil paints for metal.

Original paint is preserved on Lavochkin jet's fragments in HAI and MAI.  IMHO, the closest colour on museum planes could be seen on Yak-11 in Austria and Yak-11 in Brussels.  Google those Yaks and you will see.  Colour of La-9 preserved in China is also close enough.
Yak-11 in OKB Yakovlev museum is repainted in something else.

HTH,
KL 
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Troy Smith
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Posts: 386


« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2013, 03:15:13 AM »

Quote
can you shed any light on the various grey-blue paints listed above and their use?

Hi Troy,
first check my post at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1136.15  Wink

Paints introduced in 1947-48 (AMT-16, AGT-16, A-36g, PF-36m and PF-36g) were all the same colour - grayish blue.  Letter m stands for matt, g for glossy.  First two were nitro paints for fabric, A-36 was oil paint for metal, PF were pentaphtal oil paints for metal.

Original paint is preserved on Lavochkin jet's fragments in HAI and MAI.  IMHO, the closest colour on museum planes could be seen on Yak-11 in Austria and Yak-11 in Brussels.  Google those Yaks and you will see.  Colour of La-9 preserved in China is also close enough.
Yak-11 in OKB Yakovlev museum is repainted in something else.

HTH,
KL 

Hi Konstantin

even a thread I posted in.... I used to have a good memory...

Thanks for adding some details, hopefully this thread will be of use to others as well. 

Massimo, perhaps it would be worth adding some of these details to colour chart, like the uses of paint types, and that they are supposed to be the same colour.

What is HAI and MAI please? 

thanks
Troy
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2013, 06:55:03 AM »

Hi Troy,
Quote
Massimo, perhaps it would be worth adding some of these details to colour chart, like the uses of paint types, and that they are supposed to be the same colour.

Where this is known for sure, it is already written on the table.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2013, 06:44:04 PM »

Hi Troy,
La-156 wing is preserved at Harkhov Aviation Institute and landing gear of another Lavochkin jet is preserved at Moscow Aviation Institute.
HTH,
KL
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thunderbolt47d
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2013, 11:47:01 PM »

Now that I have the information for the exterior of my La-11, can you also point me to the proper interior color?
Thank you all!
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Troy Smith
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Posts: 386


« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2013, 02:10:49 AM »

Now that I have the information for the exterior of my La-11, can you also point me to the proper interior color?
Thank you all!
Hi Hub

glad you joined up, it's a great site.

As for interior colours, if in doubt, use A-14 steel grey, but others hopefully will know more.

see http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/color-table.html

and scroll down to interior colours, it's nearly at the bottom.

This also lists colours for various otehr internal componenst and pipes depending on use which may help.

cheers
T
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KL
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« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2013, 05:01:36 AM »

Now that I have the information for the exterior of my La-11, can you also point me to the proper interior color?

both exterior blue-gray and interior gray are visible on Brusseles Yak-11:


from: http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/yak11/yak11.htm

real colours are slightly darker than photo made with flash.
HTH,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2013, 08:03:26 AM »

Hi all,
here is an image kindly supplied by mr. Akanihin:



Regards
Massimo
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Walker
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WWW
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2013, 08:52:53 AM »

« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 08:56:26 AM by Walker » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2013, 09:37:55 AM »

Hi Walker,
what is the wing of the third image? It looks made of wood.
Regards
Massimo
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