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Author Topic: AMT-1 in Akan's new acrylic lacquer line  (Read 23440 times)
bbrought
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« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2013, 05:42:50 PM »

Thanks, Massimo. I am quite intrigued now about this particular colour. Very interesting!

Regards,
Bennie
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BA Broughton
KL
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« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2013, 08:16:42 PM »

If my opinion counts, the ochre areas are ALG-1. I actually have no doubts about this!

It's the same brown-ochre ALG-1 that is shown at Albom Nakrasok ALG-1 chip.



No mysteries there, the chip is darker because it's fresh, Il-2 wing is lighter because it's weathered (better to say sun bleached).
Same ochre ALG-1 is used on Musee del'Air Yak-3 on engine cowlings and other large dur-alluminum panels.
Same ochre ALG-1 was used on postwar Li-2s.
Same ochre is visible under green camouflage paint beetwen two guys



Conclusion: ochre was very common ALG-1 colour.

Regarding this Il-2 wing:
I have seen many pieces of wrecks were exterior (camouflage) paint is 90% washed away and what is left is underlaying primer.  Zinc-chromate is more resistant to weathering than camouflage paints, especially nitro paints.  Zinc-chromatte etches alluminum surface and forms compound with alluminum - zinc chromate will not peel off the surface like nitro paint.
It is posible that the gray areas close to the trailing edge are actually remnats of the camouflage paint,either AMT-1 or AMT-12. Impossible to determine which one because the paint is degraded.

Regarding EP:
In 2008 in his Albom Nakrasok tirade, Pilawskii finally identified this as ALG-1.  Before that, around 2005, he made following Il-2 profile:



under the influence of the same photo



HTH,
KL

« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 09:53:55 PM by KL » Logged
bbrought
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« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2013, 09:26:44 PM »

Thanks for your input, KL. I have also been thinking a bit more about it, and agree that it certainly could be ALG-1 primer. I do wonder though, whether what we see left of the original top coat is the light grey areas, or the dark areas (or both - but two different colours).

By the way, do you know of any artifacts that are likely to be A-21m - I'd like to see the comparison? Similarly, artifacts with AMT-1?
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BA Broughton
66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2013, 09:57:51 PM »

Hi bbrough,

Check this link http://ktsorens.tihlde.org/flyvrak/allied-2.html
There are color photos of the WW2 plane wrecks found in Norway. Just klick the link to any soviet metal plane.



    66misos
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 10:05:33 PM by 66misos » Logged

KL
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« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2013, 10:00:15 PM »

By the way, do you know of any artifacts that are likely to be A-21m - I'd like to see the comparison? Similarly, artifacts with AMT-1?

see reply no 13, first page of this thread.  Smiley
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bbrought
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« Reply #50 on: May 11, 2013, 02:30:12 AM »

By the way, do you know of any artifacts that are likely to be A-21m - I'd like to see the comparison? Similarly, artifacts with AMT-1?

see reply no 13, first page of this thread.  Smiley

Thanks, I missed it, although at that point the discussion was still only about AMT-1 and A-21m came up only later. Anyway, let's hope the real answer is "nothing has been found yet", and there is still a wreck out there with a definite sample to be discovered... The use of neither A-21m nor AMT-1 was supposed to have been that rare.
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BA Broughton
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2013, 07:53:14 AM »

Hi,
the wing of Pinemyra wreck looks to have brown primer on its undersurface, as visible on these photos from Mustang70 at
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234933995-vvs-colours-in-the-great-patriotic-war/page-8

it looks under the green also

here are two pieces cleaned for comparison

Note that the brown is of brighter shade on the upper part of the hatch, and darker in the lower one. It's unclear which is the less altered color.

It's clear that the relatively neat distribution of green and brow on the wing is a relic of the previous camouflage, I don't see other convincing explanations to this fact.
Now, let's compare the wing of Pinemyra with these drawings


We see not good coherence. It resembles the camo of the first drawing, but green and brown are inverted. . However the grey blotch is there.
This would be compatible with some photos of planes of Z.18 (although I don't know where the wrecked plane was bult)
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/53blur.jpg

Conclusions? Hard to say. The primer looks red brown, while the ochre seems an altered remain of the original brown, possibly influenced by the underlying primer.
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2013, 05:42:48 PM »

The upper part of the cleaned hatch looks similar to some of the interpretations of AMT-1/A-21m, although lighter.  It would be nice to know where that hatch came from on the wing, to see if it came from an area that had Light Brown according to the NKAP templates.

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

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http://www.learstang.com
KL
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Posts: 1678


« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2013, 06:23:48 PM »

Thanks, I missed it, although at that point the discussion was still only about AMT-1 and A-21m came up only later. Anyway, let's hope the real answer is "nothing has been found yet", and there is still a wreck out there with a definite sample to be discovered... The use of neither A-21m nor AMT-1 was supposed to have been that rare.

Correct, I meant AMT-1 and A-21m haven't been positively identified on wrecks.
AMT-1 and A-21m were not rare, they were used on thousends of Il-2s, Po-2s, Pe-2, Il-4s and Tu-2s. Several factors contributed to situation we have today (nothing yet...):

- majority of planes (of types listed above) were made of wood and fabric
- not a single wartime plane (of types listed above) preserved in museums in Soviet Union
- AMT-1 and other nitro paints were not resistant to aging and weathering  
- after 70 years most of the paint weathered (disappeared) from the wrecks that were exposed to the elements

Regards,
KL
« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 06:30:24 PM by KL » Logged
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