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Author Topic: Unpainted VVS planes  (Read 5873 times)
66misos
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« on: July 11, 2014, 06:18:37 AM »

Hi,
I think it could be nice to have a section/thread with kits of unpainted planes collected in one place.
They look good and could be easy and fast refference when scratching and wathering camouflaged planes.

Mig-3
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47751/thread/1217969086/1218910869/%26quot%3BUnpainted%26quot%3B+-+MiG-3

Another info at http://forum.largescalemodeller.com/topic/1008-132-trumpeter-mig-3-obnazhennyy/


Il-2
http://dqscaleworks.blogspot.sk/2012/03/guest-gallery-il-2-sturmovik-148-by.html



RAF Mosquito
Athough this is not VVS subject there are nice pictures showing how that guy achieved wooden surface. Could be helpfull.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47751/thread/1396464199/Another+experiment-+Mosquito+half+nacked


Regards,
    66misos
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 11:41:29 AM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2014, 08:26:05 AM »

Hi,
very amazing works, but taking a model as a reference for other models is a bit risky.
For example, if I remember well, the panels on the sides of the cowling of Il-2 should be made of steel, not of aluminium alloy as seems on the model.
The rendering of the wood looks particularly attractive both on the Il and on the Mosquito, do you think they're made by decals?
The fabric skinning of the MiG-3 is not so convincing, it would deserve at least a thick layer of paint instead of the dark washing that puts into evidence struts that should be inside. I would remove the stones from the ground, they are unlikely on an airfield.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2014, 08:51:56 AM »

Hi Massimo,
I agree with you that taking a model as a reference for other models is a bit risky, especially for "dispute purposes". But when doing scratch here and there on the surface, this could help to see where was metal and where not. As I wrote, fast reference. And of course, layer of primer should/could be there etc.

Quote from article about Il-2:
"The metallic zones were painted with Alclad paints and the wooden surfaces were imitated with airbrush, brushes and pencils.
For those about to realism, please, make no mistake. This is not a realistic work, Ricardo?s mind is often beyond those limitations. In his own words: ...my approach was very conceptual. The model is painted in the colours of the basic materials in which each part was made. It is like a display of how surprising a mixed construction plane can be, from the perspective of engineering. There is steel, duraluminium, plywood, and fabric, but not in any way that could be actually seen in the real plane -either under construction or debris- but in a figurative way. It lacks of priming, fabric cover on the wooden surfaces or pieces that were painted before the assembly in the factories. The colours of the metallic surfaces don?t represent the real material but the thickness of the armour in each zone
.
"

Quote from Mosquito discussion:
"What are the colors you used to paint the wood? You have used the same templates from RB...
I've used Gunze 85 and Gunze 66....both acrylics.... but you'were probably right by using the enamel color as a base.... By using only acrylics, i'had to completly redo one of the panel that i'missed. With an enamel base, i'would just have to clean the brown color and retry.
About the stencils, you're right, i've use the RB prod. It's very efficient
..."

Wood Airbrush Stencil: http://www.ultracast.ca/products/RB_Productions/Tools_Scratch-Building/RB-T029/default.htm

EDIT: nice "wood" decals from Czech company HGW: http://shop.hgwmodels.cz/en/18-148-scale


Massimo, would you mind if I link here also Yak-3 from your post?
Thank you.

    66misos
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 09:17:37 AM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2014, 10:53:02 AM »

Hi Misos, thank you for your quick reply. The wood stencil gives really convincing results.
Of course you can link the Yak-3 to this discussion.
A brief resume of the text would be highly interesting too, if you have time to.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2014, 11:37:29 AM »

Hi,
here link to unpainted Yak-3 that Massimo posted in the different thread:
http://scalemodels.ru/articles/7021-zvezda-1-48-jak-3---iz-chego-zhe-sdelany-nashi-jaki.html


Building info from scalemodels.ru:
All metallic part covered by Alu foil.
Plywood parts are decals from http://www.uschivdr.com where also "How to" instructions are
.


Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 11:45:41 AM by 66misos » Logged

learstang
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2014, 06:35:59 PM »

Nice topic, 66misos! Regarding wooden finish decals for 1/72nd scale, Freightdog Models in the UK carry two different types - http://www.freightdogmodels.co.uk/index.php?cPath=2_4&sort=2a&page=2&osCsid=c3a796bc4fa347174723afcc8b28c574

Regards,

Jason
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KL
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2014, 07:53:41 PM »

Hi all,
impressive as they are, but I see a big problem in all these models:  the real planes did not exist in that "unpainted" form!  So, those models can't be called "authentic"...  all the effort to recreate wood texture in scale and the finished model isn't "authentic"...

IMHO, the main purpose of these models is to demonstrate modelling skills.  It would make more sense if modelers utilized their skills to make dollhouse furniture



it's probably only me...  Grin

Regards,
KL

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otto
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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2014, 06:54:46 PM »

I basically agree with KL. These models are interesting and eye-catching, but they are not more realistic than a "Luftwaffe 1946" subject. The skill in reproducing natural wood, fabric and aluminium could be better employed on aircraft which were REALLY like this. Such as Austro-Hungarian Albatros D.IIIs or, staying on Russian planes, Duks-built Nieuport 17s.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 07:04:04 PM by otto » Logged
66misos
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2014, 03:22:23 PM »

Hi,
nobody say that those "unpainted" planes are strictly realistic. Authors of those models are aware of it.
Il-2 kit author:
"For those about to realism, please, make no mistake. This is not a realistic work...the model is painted in the colours of the basic materials in which each part was made... There is steel, duraluminium, plywood, and fabric, but not in any way that could be actually seen in the real plane -either under construction or debris- but in a figurative way. It lacks of priming, fabric cover on the wooden surfaces or pieces that were painted before the assembly in the factories."
Yak-3 kit author:
"From what they made our Yaks...I agree in advance that the presented model has a very vague resemblance to the process of manufacturing of domestic fighter of mixed construction..."

So intention of both authors was just to show basic materials from what are those planes made. IMHO they achieved this goal in very illustrative way. And, IMHO, with their "disclaimers" as quoted above they are closer to the reality than kits with all kind of covers open and panels removed and with full bomb/weapons load under wings.
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KL
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2014, 08:34:15 PM »

Hi Misos,
I can read and I read what authors said about their intentions.

Those statements are not "disclaimers".  Disclaimer is part of a written contract.  Consider a hypothetical case:  A modeller and I entered in a contract in which I ordered a realistic/authentic model.  In his disclaimer modeller wrote that the model is going to be painted in the colours of the basic materials in which each part was made.  After modeller delivered the model, I decided to sue him for damages because the model isn't realistic/authentic and the modeller has breached the contract.  At the court modeller will use his "disclaimer" to defend his position.
But in this case, there were no written contracts, no payments involved, I didn't click "I agree" - so, no disclaimers....

It's totally irrelevant what authors say about their models.  it's obvious to everybody what their intentions were (to show various materials).  It's up to public to accept, reject or just ignore those models.

Modeller has every right to finish his model however he likes.  Viewers have every right to like or dislike a particular model - so, you have every right to like these models and think that they are authentic.

Just to illustrate that modellers didn't do a lot of research and that Il-2 and Yak-3 models aren't very authentic/realistic:
- knots on Il-2 wings are unlikely.  Knots were not allowed in aviation grade plywood and veneer.
- lines between plywood panels on Yak-3 are fiction.  Plywood panels in random direction (Yak-3 fuselage sides) don't make any sense. 

« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 08:49:29 PM by KL » Logged
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