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Author Topic: Il-2s of 1942  (Read 15499 times)
Massimo Tessitori
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« on: November 04, 2013, 09:58:30 AM »

Hi,
I've completed two new 3 views  for the book of Jason and the site, and updated the page of Il-2s of 1942. Here are the profiles and the link to a page with 3 views and photos.


http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il2-1942/91/82-91.html
As you see, I am projecting to replace gradually all the thumbnails with small profiles linking to 3 views or small pages.
Regards
Massimo
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Arrow
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2014, 07:43:59 PM »

Thanks for both wonderful profiles. I am building a plastic model of 1/72 Il-2 (Smer) and I would like to reproduce the colour scheme of White 82 with the inscription Valery Chkalov. There are however few things where I am quite puzzled. Any help here will be really appreciated.

1. the outline of the stars - it is noted that Zavod 18 used silver outlines (til August 4.), but the profile shows white outlines of the stars - which ones should I use?

2. Right (from pilot's perspective) wing colour profile shows very atypical scheme with one large black patch connected with the front of the fuselage. Most other variations show more typical (trident/fork) camouflage on the right wing (like the white 91). I unfortunately couldn't find any better photo of white 82 and I am considering both possibilities now - any insight here would be very helpful.

3. The fuselage front is whole black, it is also hardly recognizable on the supplied photo, although it seems fully black and I am inclined to it - however most other variations show a green patch (like on white 91). Again any insight here would be very welcome.

Thanks a lot for any answers Smiley

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2014, 11:11:01 AM »

Hi Arrow,
thank you for your interest in my work.
About the outlines: I think they are white. They look white on the most part of planes and I suggest to take this as first choice unless there is reason to do differently.
I'll check the text, that is wide and made in a long time, about silver.
I've uploaded all the photos of plane 82 I have, so I can't add much on this. The unusual black nose seems confirmed on both photos, so I think that the wing is unusual too, as visible on the photo showing it, that looks of good quality.
My suggestion is to paint the model as from the drawing.
Please, let me know if you find anything that requires a correction to the drawing.
Regards
Massimo
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Arrow
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2014, 06:40:00 PM »

Thank you for your insight Massimo. I will do the pattern according to your drawing, meanwhile I will try to search if there is a better photo, if I find something I will present it here. Keep up the good work, it is highly appreciated Smiley It is also very surprising that the Academy Il-2 1/72 has this camo and marking as a box art and it is presented in this ridiculous combination of brown and green  Roll Eyes

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learstang
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2014, 04:52:32 AM »

That's because it was from back in the "good old days" when everyone, especially in the West, thought the two-colour scheme was brown/green, not black/green. Even East Europeans sources had that wrong camouflage (I've seen it in a small book on the Il-2 published as late as 2011[?], in Russia, no less!).

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2014, 07:07:43 AM »

Hi Arrow,
it's true for the singleseater. But it seems that they have looked at my page for the twoseater, with decals made by Cartograf. The painting instructions of '24' are nearly identical to the drawing that I published few weeks before.
Hi Jason,
yes, the artists not strictly involved with VVS often have outdated sources. The important thing is that he decals are good.
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 07:23:01 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
Troy Smith
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2014, 01:56:05 PM »

That's because it was from back in the "good old days" when everyone, especially in the West, thought the two-colour scheme was brown/green, not black/green. Even East Europeans sources had that wrong camouflage (I've seen it in a small book on the Il-2 published as late as 2011[?], in Russia, no less!).

Regards,

Jason

Since links to the below this turned up in a recent thread, worth mentioning it is still listed in the site linked as a valid scheme, and as an 'expert' used in restorations, this 'information' won't just go away.

http://www.redbanner.co.uk/History/il2guide/basic_vvs-colouration.html

Quote
The Il-2 started the GPW wearing a two-colour disruptive scheme of Black/Green, as with fighter aircraft. During 1942 it even received some Dark Green/Green applications, as well. So far as is currently known, AMT was not employed on the early Il-2 programme. During late 1942, examples of the Il-2 two-seater began to appear wearing a two-colour scheme with AII Brown replacing AII Black. This paint, AII Brown, was known before the GPW, but was not common until it began to be used on the Il-2. The name "Brown" is also highly misleading-- the factories who made aircraft called the paint "red", which seems more appropriate than "brown". The Il-2 programme turned to AII Brown with very great enthusiasm, and from spring 1943 this became the standard AII lacquer finish for Il-2s.

During 1943 the government (NKAP) decided to offer some advice on camouflage. Once such recommendation was for a three-colour camouflage for use on shturmoviki (assault aircraft) using the new AMT type paints. On the Il-2 this application was used  from late 1943, featuring AMT-12/-1/-4 over AMT-7. At the time of writing, it would appear that both AII and AMT lacquer schemes were applied to the Il-2 indiscriminately for the remainder of the GPW. Research continues on this topic to attempt to quantify these relative ubiquity of these options.

Other three-colour applications on the Il-2 are known. Many field applied schemes of this type were completed, and there were examples of AII Black/Brown/Green at at least two of the factories involved. Factory 18 made a series of Southern Front camouflage Il-2s, these in AII Black/Brown/Light Brown. These were, of course, specific and unusual examples, and not the norm.

As some of the information is correct it's easy to see how confusion arises.

The Pe-2 'colouring' down the page is 'interesting' as well.

I know, old news, easy target,  but as these are being still put forward as 'facts' it worth mentioning, as there is a popular perception among the uninitiated that Soviet colours are a complex and difficult subject, comparable to the complexity of the Luftwaffe,  when the opposite is the case, much more akin to RAF camouflage, which is mostly standard, with some interesting quirks and variations to be aware of.

cheers
T

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2014, 02:46:59 PM »

Very self-referential.
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2014, 06:17:16 PM »

Hi,
another one.

The plane of Alexey Arsentevich Rogozhin of 763 ShAP in spring 1942, Kalinin front.

The inscription means "Avenge Major Kozlova". Major Peter P. Kozlov was killed in action on 07/03/1943; Rogozhin did this inscription on his IL-2 a couple of days after this.

http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=12877

From an interview, the inscription is described as made with light blue paint, and is well visible in a photo that I can't publish for copyright reasons. The number, of which only the top is visible, is 13, apparently with the same shade. The photo shows also an huge red star with very thin and irregular white outline, and light irregular parts on the camo; all that is explainable as if the plane was painted with washable white paint during the winter, and the huge star was painted with permanent red paint over temporary white distemper. When the white layer was washed off during the spring, the star remained, aside some white remains. The original star of Zavod 30 was then deleted with black or green paint, and the 13 added on; later, the slogan was added on too. All what is not visible on the photo was drawn as on usual planes of Zavod 30 built in late 1942 that equipped this unit.
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B_Realistic
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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2014, 09:26:50 PM »

That's a very interesting Il-2.
Maybe I do another one. Cheesy
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2014, 06:42:19 AM »

Yes, interesting indeed.
The slogan could give some difficulty.
Regards
Massimo
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xan
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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2014, 11:27:51 AM »

Hello Massimo,
this profile is very nice indeed. is there a picture of this plane?
Why did you choose light blue color it was the tradition in this regiment? a testimony? or an personal interpretation?
Anyway, very atractive decoration...

Xan
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2014, 02:35:02 PM »

Hi Xan,
i have a photo from Vitaliy, but he recommanded not to show it. It shows few more than the slogan. The blue color, the fact that it's a singleseater of Z 30 and the slogan was blue are informations from him, probably answers of a veteran that now is died. I acted with these informations only.
Regards
Massimo
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xan
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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2014, 12:11:35 AM »

OK, thank   you; you know other examples of blue codes?
Xan
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KL
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« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2014, 01:28:22 AM »

I think I read somewhere that only red, black, white and silver were officially approved for tactical numbers...
KL
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