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Author Topic: MiG-3 ICM 1/48  (Read 16629 times)
KL
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2013, 06:34:10 AM »

My suggestions for MiG-3 interior, based on few fragments from Finland that I am familiar with and colours of two planes preserved at le Bourget (I-153 is relevant because it was made in the same Factory No 1 which later made MiG-3s):

-  I-153 steel-tube fuselage frame (made in 1939) is gray-green, Yak-3 (made in 1944 by Factory 192) is dark gray.
-  MiG-3 wooden wing interior is silver.  LaGG-3 (made in 1941-42 by Factory 21) rear wooden fuselage interior is silver
-  I-153 engine cowling interior is gray A-14 (as prescribed in 1937!), Yak-3 engine cowling interior is unpainted brown-yellow ALG-1 zinc chromate.
-  Yak-3 cockpit interior is gray A-14 (as prescribed in 1937!) including lower part of the seat (parachute bowl??)
-  I-153 steel back armor plate is (yellowish) green.  Several other green back armor plates are known from various wrecks


To skorpio62 (are you 51 Huh)
Few details that are obviously wrong:
-  lower part of the seat can't be green - it was made of dur-alluminium, nothing to do with steel back armour
-  floor can't be green
I would suggest gray A-14 for both

According to overhaul and repair manuals, Light blue was allowed as a replacement for Gray A-14.  This may explain why Finish MiG-3 has flaps interior and cockpit sides light blue

HTH,
KL
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 06:36:44 AM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2013, 07:59:27 AM »

Hi all,
the inside of the rear fuselage of this one looks unpainted wood

while the wing inside is silver

The tube strut is very dark, but not as dark as the black handle. I've hypothized it was AS-10, but I've found a chip of it and it looks not the same color. I've thought that it was of the same green than the outside for years, but it seems not so.

Here the seat backrest shows very dark grey around the headest, that looks the part where the paint is best preserved, while the green looks underlying. We see also blackish tubes and a lower part of the seat that is without paint (grey for someone).

On the bw photo from the manual, the lower part of the seat appears painted with a light color.The only MiG-3 seat showing a light painting is this oddity (greenish zinc chromate?).

The inside of the panels of the weapons and engine bays appear as the outside or slightly darker. This is not the shade expected from A-14, that is lighter, so I think it could be the same dark grey of the seat and tubes (as a second choice, green as the outside)


Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean that all the MiG-3s were painted the same way.
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 08:01:34 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
otto
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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2013, 10:40:53 AM »

Skorpio/Stefano, in my point N?6 I meant that in the picture of the MiG-3 cockpit wreckage the double trim wheel (il doppio volantino  Wink) appears medium grey, lighter than the frame. Which color did you use to reply AE-14 light blue?
Massimo, a rear picture of the same seat (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1522.0) shows it entirely green, with no gray traces. On the front side, it's true that the zone around the headrest should be the best preserved, but the shape of the stains still seem to me as grey is an undercoat.
Regarding the rear bay of the cockpit which in the Finnish museum wreck appears green as the exterior (where the radio boxes are placed, not the inside which is unpainted wood), are there any suggestions about the factory-painted white MiG-3s? Here (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/kuybyshev.html) the interior color appears dark.
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skorpio62
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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2013, 01:03:47 PM »

Hi all,
@ KL to choose colors to use I had spoken with Massimo, in previous speeches of this post, and I decided on these....perhaps the seat armor plate is green; I'm 51 of age and 62 year of birth.
@ otto ok now I understand (you are italian?) I did dark gray (like the struts) I saw that some parts were black (like the top of the cloche) that remain in the view'll scratch with metal color; AE14 is obtained with 10 parts of Gunze H-45 plus 4 parts H-332 (light aircraft gray), for the cockpit is the same mix with a small amount of Tamiya XF-61 (dark green), I want also try other (RLM76 + H45) also changing the green (XF-58 olive green).
@ Massimo you see the picture with the color test? What do you think?

Stefano
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 01:05:29 PM by skorpio62 » Logged
KL
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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2013, 05:11:08 PM »

the inside of the rear fuselage of this one looks unpainted wood


This can not be "Unpainted wood".  This is a plane not a piece of furniture.   Roll Eyes

All wooden surfaces were protected against moisture.  Especially in MiG-3 because its wooden structure was glued with caseine glue. 
What do you think; Why did they paint wing interior in silver??  just for fun, because workers who made wing liked silver and those who made fuselage simply decided they could leave fuselage interior unpainted?

I see there part in yellow nitro putty and further (or deeper into the fuselage) dirty silver.

Regards,
KL
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otto
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« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2013, 05:30:49 PM »

KL, yelow nitro putty is outside where the wood was, as far as I know, covered with fabric. The interior could have been unpainted but protected with clear varnish, like WW1 Albatros fuselages.
I am not an expert, but it seems to me that MiG-3s were built from sub-assemblies coming, if not from different factories, at least from different sections of the same factory. As a consequence we have dark grey or light blue tubular frames, light blue frames for outer panels, the latter have dark inner color, the seat armor is green...
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2013, 07:09:53 PM »

Hi Stefano,
Quote
@ Massimo you see the picture with the color test? What do you think?
Looks likely. I would make the greenish color a bit lighter, and I would use it for metallic outside surfaces too.

Hi Otto
Quote
Massimo, a rear picture of the same seat (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1522.0) shows it entirely green, with no gray traces. On the front side, it's true that the zone around the headrest should be the best preserved, but the shape of the stains still seem to me as grey is an undercoat.
Could be, bw photos don't help to decide between green and dark grey.

Hi Konstantin,
Quote
This can not be "Unpainted wood".  This is a plane not a piece of furniture.   Roll Eyes
All wooden surfaces were protected against moisture.  Especially in MiG-3 because its wooden structure was glued with caseine glue. 
What do you think; Why did they paint wing interior in silver??  just for fun, because workers who made wing liked silver and those who made fuselage simply decided they could leave fuselage interior unpainted?
I see there part in yellow nitro putty and further (or deeper into the fuselage) dirty silver.
If you love to think that the inside of the fuselage shown in the photo is silver, please do. You are the owner of your opinions. But if you say this thing to anyone, please show him this photo as a good example of silver painting, just to allow him to make his mind.
Why was silver paint utilized for wood and fabric? To protect them against UV rays. To protect from moisture, any protective paint is good, including transparent one. So it LOOKS unpainted just as I've written.
If it is something else, I would hear this from someone that has seen the real piece.
Regards
Massimo



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KL
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« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2013, 08:20:49 PM »

I am not an expert, but it seems to me that MiG-3s were built from sub-assemblies coming, if not from different factories, at least from different sections of the same factory. As a consequence we have dark grey or light blue tubular frames, light blue frames for outer panels, the latter have dark inner color, the seat armor is green...

I am an expert; I saw with my own eyes some of the MiG-3 fragments others are posting on this thread.

Yes, Mig-3 was built from sub-assemblies.  There were no "different factories" - it was made by one factory.  I can't see how these two facts relate to the supposed variability in colours.

Why was silver paint utilized for wood and fabric? To protect them against UV rays. To protect from moisture, any protective paint is good, including transparent one. So it LOOKS unpainted just as I've written.

It's so amusing to read this.  Could you honestly say where did you first find about silver and UV rays?  Did you find about that in Pilawskii's research, or maybe in my posts few years ago?

BTW, what UV rays inside MiG-3's wooden wing or inside LaGG-3's rear fuselage?
Regards,
KL

 
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2013, 07:02:59 AM »

Hi Konstantin,
Quote
I am an expert; I saw with my own eyes some of the MiG-3 fragments others are posting on this thread.
I remember some other person saying something similar.
Quote
Quote
It's so amusing to read this.  Could you honestly say where did you first find about silver and UV rays?  Did you find about that in Pilawskii's research, or maybe in my posts few years ago?

BTW, what UV rays inside MiG-3's wooden wing or inside LaGG-3's rear fuselage?

Sorry to say that your arrogance is unacceptable. Please consider this as a first warning.

Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 06:33:19 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
otto
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« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2013, 11:00:46 AM »

Non ragioniam di lor ma guarda e passa (do not worry about them but look and go) - Dante Alighieri
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2013, 01:43:02 PM »

Hi,
From Orlov, Aviakollectia 12/2008, pag.3

Quote
On the fabric obtyazhku four to five layers of colourless dope were applied. This provided a stretched canvas, to improve its durability, protect against water, gasoline and oil, and create a smoother surface. Then, spray equipment or a brush applied an intermediate (primer) layer of silver (aluminium), a second lacquer coating protecting against ultraviolet radiation exposure.  Then the second decorative coating or camouflage colours were applied to the plane through two layers of spray paint dope (or varnishes).

Regards
Massimo
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skorpio62
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« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2013, 02:57:01 PM »

Hi,
on the net I saw that some modeller puts two orange piping, one on right and one on left, in the low side of perimeter of the cockpit....someone tell me what is this? Grin

Stefano
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 03:00:29 PM by skorpio62 » Logged
Troy Smith
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« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2013, 07:51:52 PM »

HI Stefano

which make of photo etch you using on this build?

does not look like Eduard, is this Part? 

neat work on the build
and welcome to the site
cheers
Troy
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skorpio62
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« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2013, 02:48:21 AM »

Hi,
thanks Troy, the photo etch is from ACE not Eduard Wink

Stefano
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skorpio62
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« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2013, 02:12:15 AM »

Hi all,
I'm doing the piping of the cockpit but I don't understand how they are made some pipes.
Left side: the compressed air bottle, chargeable from a hole on the side panel (blue arrows), how is connected with the tap on the strut....as the red line? I do not know what is indicated by black arrows and one with the green arrow is a metallic plate fixed to the strut?



Or so: charging line in yellow and distribution line in red (connected with the "mistery tool")?



Same question for the oxygen line .... so okay?



Last question: these two orange hoses, seen on some kits, are real or fantasy?



Stefano
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