Sovietwarplanes
July 20, 2019, 02:23:57 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This forum replaces the old sovietwarplanes.com whose domain has expired in January 2017. It has been updated with the posts of the year 2016.
The new location of the site 'Sovietwarplanes pages' is at http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Chips of AMT-1, A-21m, A-28m and other paints  (Read 13093 times)
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2013, 06:53:26 AM »

Many colors are indicated between two numbers with two chips each, that is between four chips.

I found Akanihin's explanation.  It's an excerpt from an official document:

" Нормирование цвета эмалей и красок": "Нормирование цвета эмали или краски двумя эталонами (при этом в нормативном документе указываются два номера картотеки) означает пределы оттенка, в которых может находиться цвет выпускаемого лакокрасочного материала...Картотека дает возможность ОТК (Отделу Технического Контроля) предприятия контролировать поступающие на завод эмали и краски по цвету и при их несоответствии эталонам браковать лакокрасочную продукцию и возвращать её изготовителю. Цвет должны проверять при дневном отражённом свете, визуально сравнивая высушенную накраску лакокрасочного материала с соответствующим эталоном картотеки или двумя эталонами, определяющими допускаемое отклонение по цвету."

It says that when colour is standardized with two numbers shades between the numbers are allowed.  For AMT-1 it means all colours between light brown and sand, contrary to what I said few days ago.   Grin

It looks that the left chip is actually the real paint surface.  The right chip seems to be chip's back - paint seen through the plastic film.

let us know what Averin says.

Regards,
KL
 
Logged
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2013, 07:53:45 AM »

Akanihin's comment on Albom chips:

В "Альбоме..." размещены образцы, попавшие в "вилочные допуски". Они не обязательно могут быть точной копией одного из пары эталонов. Скорее всего они будут посередине допускаемых отклонений. Но там такой малюсенький зазорчик!!!
Logged
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5741


« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2013, 08:32:09 AM »

That means...
Logged
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5741


« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2013, 05:30:22 PM »

Quote
In the "Album ..." are samples that fall into the "fork-tolerance." They may not necessarily be an exact copy of one of a pair of standards. Most likely they will be the middle of the allowed tolerances. But there's a tiny zazorchik!
Logged
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2013, 03:12:58 AM »

That means...

Is your post a question or a conclusion? Huh
Logged
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5741


« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2013, 07:01:06 AM »

It was a request of translation, as for previous pages, particularly the names of the AII colors in the second page I've posted.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 07:04:54 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2013, 08:36:08 AM »

It was a request of translation, as for previous pages, particularly the names of the AII colors in the second page I've posted.



Nitro enamel NTs-5134
(former AII (k) and AII (p) second cover)

Alluminium
Beidge No 965
White No 802, 803
Red No 10, 11
Olive No 966
Ivory No 900
Light Cream No 962, 963
Light Pistachio No 967
Lilac-gray No 964
Tobacco No 861

I don't think this helps... those are not VVS WWII colours.  May explain origin of "Tractor Green" - No 967  Wink
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 08:45:52 AM by KL » Logged
bbrought
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 90



« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2013, 01:40:16 PM »

Quote
In the "Album ..." are samples that fall into the "fork-tolerance." They may not necessarily be an exact copy of one of a pair of standards. Most likely they will be the middle of the allowed tolerances. But there's a tiny zazorchik!

The last sentence: "But there's such a tiny little gap!", meaning the tolerance is small.
Logged

BA Broughton
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5741


« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2013, 09:45:37 PM »

Thank you Konstantin,
in fact they don't seem for military planes.
Regards
Massimo
Logged
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2013, 06:34:53 AM »

The table was made in 1960es, after the new paint coding system was introduced.  Some of the paints in the table are definitively military paints.  Protective colour is mentioned in two groups. Group below the former AII paints is interesting:

Nitro enamel NTs-5133M

Light Blue No 952, 953
Green No 741-760
Light Brown No 924, 935
Light Gray-Blue No 842, 843
Gray-Blue No 820, 823
Dark Gray No 823, 827
Black No 861

It may not look like a group of military paints, but those are AMT paints.  Standard numbers are identical to the numbers in table provided by Averin:

AMT-7 = Light Blue No 952, 953
AMT-4 = Green No 741-760
AMT-1 = Light Brown No 924, 935
AMT-16 = Light Gray-Blue No 842, 843
AMT-11 = Gray-Blue No 820, 823
AMT-12 = Dark Gray No 823, 827
AMT-6 = Black No 861


IMHO, AII paints listed in this table are AII paints that remained in production and use after WWII.  AII Red and AII White were used for red star markings on planes painted in AGT paints, AII Aluminium was used for UV protection (as you already know from 2008 Aviakollektsiya) on Yak-12s and other fabric covered postwar planes.

I have no idea what "AII Lilac" and "AII Pistachio" were used for. Huh  Might be related to Nadia Bukhanova Huh

HTH,
KL
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 06:36:28 AM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5741


« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2013, 01:20:37 PM »

Yes, I knew of the change of name, but I was hoping in new informations on AII wartime ones because AMT are already well known. Who knows if that olive is the same of AII Z? Well, anyway we can't be sure.
In the meanwhile, here are scans of the covers of the manuals where Andrey found some of his documents.

Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 02:27:10 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5741


« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2013, 03:32:14 PM »

Hi all,
some other chips from Andrey.
The first one is for AE-10 (whose only known use is for the inside of seaplanes below the water line) and the chromatically identical DD-118. Not any very dark grey, then.



Just for a comparison, the better known A-14f.




Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 08:17:18 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5741


« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2017, 09:58:11 AM »

Hi all,
after a request of Misos, I've restored the links to the images of the chips and documents from Averin in this topic.
I know that there are still many broken links to the site in the forum.
If you have interest into the restoration of some particular link, please ask. Else, you could find it replacing 'mig3.sovietwarplanes' with 'massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages' into the url.
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 07:28:57 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
66misos
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1482

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


WWW
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2017, 09:44:24 PM »

Hi Massimo,
Thank you for correction of the links to pictures.
So we have etalons for light brown and light blue now. It would be nice to have the same etalons with two colors and limited values of each one also for green AMT-4 and greys AMT-11 and AMT-12.
I have browsed quite a lot Russian pages via yandex.ru, but did not find anything.
Regards,
   66misos
Logged

Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5741


« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2017, 08:33:16 PM »

Hi Misos,
I've the chip for AMT-4.


I can ask for other scans, even if I don't trust scans too much as a source for colors. A white chip and a black one inserted in aren't enough, one should add other known colors as a page of FS-595 to be sure of what he is seeing.
The main information given is that AMT-1 and A-21m have to be different colors, while AMT-7 and A-28 m have to be the same.

Regards
Massimo
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!