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Author Topic: P-39 Airacobras in VVS  (Read 75632 times)
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2014, 10:07:01 AM »

Hi Misos,
this is an interesting note for your page on P-39s. I hope you will find some time to update it.
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2014, 06:39:15 AM »

Hi Misos,
I've updated your pages. Please, have a look if it is all well.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2014, 01:24:31 PM »

Hi,

here is another profile.
It bases on the following photo from the book Airacobras over Kuban by V. Roman and accompanying text about rudder and serial number:



regards,
      66misos
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 10:58:17 PM by 66misos » Logged

KL
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« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2014, 07:39:25 PM »

508 iap had different tactical markings:




Later, when renamed to 213 giap


Lightning was also used by 303 iad, part of which was the famous Normandie-Niemen regiment.  303 iad at different times included P-39 regiments:
- 494 iap from Aug 1943 to Nov 1943
- 9 giap from Oct 1944 till end of war

HTH,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2014, 09:17:51 PM »

Hi Misos,
nice work, but there are some small things:
the number 3 on the fuselage has a different shape; its upper part should be as '37', while the lower part looks as your 3 but the 'mouth' of the number looks more open;
the red star on the fuselage should be wider and moved in lower position (not well centered as on US planes), and perspectically deformed for the wrapping around on the lower part;
the color of the outline of the star looks darker than the 13 and even of the number on the tail, I think it is silver.
Please, check on an enlarged image.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2014, 10:41:33 AM »

Hi,
thank you for your comments.
So it should be from 329IAD, IAP not known.

KL,
wasn't 9 GIAP latter rearmed from P-39 to La-7 planes?

Massimo,
I well correct it within couple of day. I travel now.

Rergards,
     66misos
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KL
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« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2014, 06:24:46 PM »

wasn't 9 GIAP latter rearmed from P-39 to La-7 planes?

Yes, you are correct - 9 giap received La-7s in summer 1944.

303 iad and its 494 iap is still an option for autumn 1943.
The real question: When was the lightning introduced as 303 iad tactical marking?  Lightning is rarely seen on Yak-1s flown by Normandie pilots in 1943.  Maybe the "French Connection " can help...  Smiley
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KL
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« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2014, 10:52:41 PM »

So it should be from 329IAD, IAP not known.

329 iad comprised of:

- 101 giap
- 66 iap
- 57 giap

101 giap had white spinners!  check here:  http://statehistory.ru/books/Artyem-Drabkin_YA-dralsya-s-asami-lyuftvaffe--Na-smenu-pavshim--1943-1945---/10
Во всех эскадрильях полка коки винтов были белые....  Спереди сбоку наносились крупные белые номера машин. Номера самолетов первой эскадрильи начинались с 01, второй ? 20, третьей ? 30. Я летал на ?кобре? под номером 22. Если самолет вышел из строя и я надолго перехожу на другую машину, то номер также переносился. Ну и за сбитые самолеты рисовали звездочки: там, где номера, ? спереди сбоку. Как у Покрышкина.



66iap had different markings.  Check here:  http://statehistory.ru/books/Artyem-Drabkin_YA-dralsya-s-asami-lyuftvaffe--Na-smenu-pavshim--1943-1945---/12
Еще у нас были отличительные знаки полка на самолетах. Первая эскадрилья ? коки винта красные, вторая эскадрилья ? голубые, третья эскадрилья ? желтые. Полос не было  Huh. Тактические номера у самолетов полка были белого цвета и наносились на хвостовой части фюзеляжа.



So, your P-39s with lightnings could be related to 57 giap (something to double check!!!)


 

« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 10:58:16 PM by KL » Logged
66misos
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« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2014, 11:31:10 PM »

Hi,

P-39 board no. 20 from KL's post looks interesting - vertical (white?) stripe on the rudder like on the P-39Q "28" (Baranov, 28 GIAP) from Ovsyannikov interview, no serial number and dark (red or blue?) propeller spinner.
Regarding blue, there are basically 2 possibilities on Massimo's Mig3 pages:
- oil enamel A-9    gloss dark blue          hydraulic system
- oil enamel A-10   gloss azure              oxygen tank and pipes

From Ovsyannikov interview: "we (28 GIAP) had white spinners... the 72nd Regiment, they were red, and in the 68th Regiment?sky blue"
So if blue, then A-10 gloss azure could be a good candidate.

regards,
   66msos
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 08:42:45 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2014, 06:32:36 AM »

Hi Misos,
in my idea, sky blue has to be read as the color of undersurfaces of other types, as AMT-7 or A-28m.
About the profile of 13: the photo gives the idea of a star moved a bit more down that ends well in the neutral grey zone and is deformed for perspective.
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 07:34:45 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
66misos
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« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2014, 12:17:22 PM »

Hi Massimo,

I enlarged and deformed star a bit more.
Right tip of that star already touches the board number and left bottom tip is on the trailing edge of the wing (like on the photo).

Regarding that blue color. Do you think that they used AMT-7 or A-28m for painting spinners and tail tips?

Here that blue color looks quite bright.
However, here the spinner looks quite dark (e.g.red?):

Plus, that verical strip on the tail looks a bit darker than white boar no. "20".

Regards,
    66misos
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 10:59:48 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2014, 05:57:38 PM »

Hi Misos,
I suggest to do so:
move downwards the star and deform its lower brace;
modify the 3;
move forward the z of the lightning.
I've tried a rough sketch to explain better:



About the light blue: this is how I read 'sky blue' ; I haven't other informations, apart that Mr. Bykov (if I remember well) wrote that, in general,  the blue of undersurface was utilized for markings too.
An alternative could have been AII light blue that was gloss and lighter (but perhaps less easy to be found in 1944).
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2014, 09:44:48 PM »

Finally found confirmation for lightnings on 57 gviap planes:

А на следующий день, 19 августа, восьмерка истребителей вылетела в тот же район на штурмовку вражеской автоколонны. Группу истребителей И-16 со стрелами на фюзеляже повел командир эскадрильи Виктор Орлов. Я летел у него ведомым.

from http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/ivanov_al/index.html
book's name is "Скорость, маневр, огонь"  author is А.Л. Иванов



from one sentence in memoirs to Il-2 flight simulator game:

« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 09:47:32 PM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2014, 06:56:28 AM »

An automatic translation:
Quote
And the next day, August 19, eight fighters flew in the same area to attack enemy convoys. Group-16 fighters with arrows on the fuselage led squadron commander Viktor Orlov. I flew his wingman.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2014, 06:37:31 PM »

Hi Massimo,
I am too busy now to play with PS. So in the meantime just couple of questions:
- is that arrow/lighting white or yellow? I made it according to the Cobra in foreground. "Z" on the arrow/lighting on "13" is partially covered by pitot tube tip.
- I am not sure that digit "3" is so open on the bottom. Photo does not show it clearly. And that Spitfire has similiar upper part but bottom part is closed. Do you have exmple of such open digit "3"?

   66misos
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