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Author Topic: P-39 Airacobras in VVS  (Read 65763 times)
66misos
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« Reply #210 on: February 26, 2016, 08:50:45 PM »

So if we exclude present days, then
...Question is "what did they have on hands in 1943-45 period?"
According to the NKAP 1943 scheme AMT-11/12/7 were approved for fighters and so (IMHO) these paints were produced and delivered to PARMs for fighter planes overhaul. There was also green AMT-4 used for bombers and Il-2s, so it could be available in some (smaller) amounts also for fighters (repainting USAF/white discs).
So teoreticaly most probable (not only, just most probable) alternative for any overall repainting during the period from the summer 1943 untill end of war is either dark grey AMT-12 and/or bluegrey AMT-11 for upper surface and light blue AMT-7 for undersurfaces. Huh
Regards,
    66misos
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KL
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« Reply #211 on: February 26, 2016, 09:32:44 PM »

Hi Misos,
what you say applies to Yaks, Lavochkins and Il-2s - mixed construction and wooden planes.  Airacobra was a metal plane...

You may download 1943 "Polevoi remont samoletov" at http://elib.uraic.ru/handle/123456789/5771
Check pages 143 and 144, metal planes were repainted only with oil paints.  Oil paints might have been scarce in fighter regiments/divisions.  Other good quality oil paints (Soviet, US or German) were better substitute than nitrocellulose paints.  This may explain Airacobras in non-standard colours.

Regards,
KL
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 09:51:31 PM by KL » Logged
66misos
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« Reply #212 on: February 27, 2016, 09:04:50 AM »

Hi KL,
If we narrow it down to the VVS aeronautical oil paints from September 1943 - 1945, there are even less options:
http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/color-table.html
Colors used for shturmoviks, bombers and transport planes:
- A-28m matt greyish blue for undersurface (e.g. blue again, not grey),
- A-32m matt dark grey (oil eq. to AMT-12) and A-24m matt camouflage green (oil eq. to AMT-4) for uppersurfaces.
There was no light grey for exterior use.
That green looks usually too light on the photos. So dark grey / light blue is the final.  Huh
Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 09:09:55 AM by 66misos » Logged

66misos
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« Reply #213 on: March 08, 2016, 10:35:58 PM »

Hi,
another interesting Cobra:

http://www.forumavia.ru/forum/8/9/3788046170264537798121171695289_6.shtml
P-39 from 66 iap in Bydgosc (Poland), aug-sept 1945.
Seems there is a red star also on the rudder. Plus spinner is nicely colorfull - my guess: black-yellow-red-white. And red tips on the propeller blades.
It looks like bright (light bluegrey?) Cobras were not so rare after the war. Huh

regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 10:42:51 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #214 on: March 09, 2016, 06:56:34 AM »

Hi Misos,
very very interesting.
There is a small number 68 on the fin, hidden between shadows and lights. Two small circles are the lower part of it, the most visible.
The number of the other plane is vaguely visible behind the nose leg of the first one, looks another 68 but more likely another similar number as 66.
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 07:01:26 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
66misos
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« Reply #215 on: March 11, 2016, 10:09:52 AM »

Hi Massimo,
here is enlarged part of the photo from above:



One red star is on the tail (only rudder), on the fix part of the tail seems to be number 68 and there is visible top arm of the fuselage red star.
Regrads,
  66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #216 on: March 12, 2016, 07:11:17 AM »

Hi Misos,
it looks enough for a profile.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #217 on: March 12, 2016, 11:00:23 AM »

Hi Massimo,
there are still open important questions:
- what is color of the fuselage? Glossy/polished light bluegrey?
- what colors are on the prop spinner? White-Black-Light bluegrey-Red or White-Black-Yellow-Red or...?
- tail number "68" is red?
Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #218 on: March 12, 2016, 01:31:57 PM »

Hi Misos,
yes, but one has to guess. I don't think that new things will emerge on the look of this plane.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #219 on: March 12, 2016, 08:16:28 PM »


- what is color of the fuselage? Glossy/polished light bluegrey?
- what colors are on the prop spinner? White-Black-Light bluegrey-Red or White-Black-Yellow-Red or...?
- tail number "68" is red?



Hi Misos,
IMHO,

- spinner colours are White-Black-Light blue-Red
- fuselage is light blue
- number "68" is yellow-orange

You may exclude "polished" from your guessing - some planes had factory polished wings in 1939/40, but in 1945 this practice was totally forgotten (it required special pastes, tools and it was time consuming...).  Here you have an example of highly glossy paint.

66 iap had a vertical line on rudders as a quick recognition marking:



   

Regards,
KL 
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66misos
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« Reply #220 on: March 13, 2016, 08:31:42 AM »

Hi KL,
original glossy paint is real option. Question is what paint did they use. It looks like glossy car paint, not military paint for aircraft from that time (summer 1945, no AGT paints yet).
Why do you think that tail number is yellow-orange? It is not contrast enough on the light blue surface? IMHO red is more realistic. 68 seems to have no outline.
Spinner is really colorfull "artistic" work. I am not sure light-blue is better option than yellow.
Note darker tips on the propeller blades. They were yellow on the black blades. But here on the steel grey (note dark stencils) yellow is not contrast enough, red seems to be more probable.
White vertical tail band was used during the war (1944-45). But this is the afterwar picture of repainted Cobra, no white band is on the tail.
Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 08:34:40 AM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #221 on: March 19, 2016, 03:52:29 PM »

Hi,
the page of Misos was updated with the articles on p-39s of 212 giap.

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lendlease/p-39/p-39.html


http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lendlease/p-39/misos/212giap-19/212giap-19.htm


http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lendlease/p-39/misos/438iap-5-oborin/438iap-5-oborin.htm


http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lendlease/p-39/misos/212giap-34-kuzmin/212giap-34-kuzmin.htm


http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lendlease/p-39/misos/212giap-47/212giap-47.htm


http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lendlease/p-39/misos/212giap-56/212giap-56.htm


http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lendlease/p-39/misos/212giap-53/212giap-53.htm


http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lendlease/p-39/misos/212giap-44/212giap-44.htm

Plane n.100 of 213 giap was modified.

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lendlease/p-39/misos/213giap-100/213giap-100.htm

Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 09:25:34 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
66misos
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« Reply #222 on: June 16, 2016, 02:10:59 PM »

Hi,
The remnants of two P-39 Airacobras have been recently found in Czech Republic:

1.) P-39Q-21-BE, S/N: 44-3534, crashed probably at the beginning of March 1945. This Cobra probably belonged to 6 giak of 2 VA. It was found near the little city Harrachov, NE from Prague, near to the state boarder with Polland.
Pictures from the crash site http://www.leteckabadatelna.cz/havarie-a-sestrely/detail/64/

2.) P-39Q-25, S/N: 44-32665 (4-blades propeller), B/N: ??, 268 iap/310 iad PVO, pilot Grigori Sergeevich Rogachko, crashed on April 13, 1945.
More at http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?p=218382
Plane has been found near village Petrovice u Karvin?, pictures from the crash site http://www.leteckabadatelna.cz/havarie-a-sestrely/detail/356/
More info in the Russian language at http://trizna.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=53630 and http://trizna.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=522391

This Cobra should be similiar to this one, also from 268 iap (photo from VIF):


Regards,
  66misos
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66misos
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« Reply #223 on: February 12, 2017, 11:06:46 AM »

Hi,
I just found interesting photos at http://sk16.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1439 of the discovery of the crashed VVS delivered from RAF.
It is Airacobra I BX225 from 2 giap flown by E.A. Gridyushko.
Interesting is original green-brown RAF camouflage scheme:





Bottom wing, note RAF roundel repainted by light blue color (AMT-7?) under the red star, which has no outline:



Upper wing - RAF roundel repainted by black (?) color, no red star:


Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 11:10:03 AM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #224 on: February 12, 2017, 10:33:20 PM »

Hi Misos,
really interesting images. By the way, I wonder if the camouflage is painted by brush, I can't see any part where the division is soft.
Regards
Massimo
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