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Author Topic: Silver Il-2?  (Read 18191 times)
66misos
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« Reply #75 on: July 21, 2014, 06:38:28 AM »

Hi KL,

I took parachute of this guy as a basement


reworked it and applied it on my guy:

Hope he looks more like pilot than postman now Wink

regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 05:19:36 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #76 on: July 21, 2014, 07:08:10 AM »

Hi Misos,
I think that the color of the parachute should be more khaki, not so brown.
The problem, in my way, is that one can see too much the difference between the original blurried contours of the man and the new details.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #77 on: July 21, 2014, 07:31:13 AM »

Hi Misos,
the coat should be bluish black, fur collar should be dark brown.

In the previous post I actually changed my mind regarding the parachute.  There are too many straps that should be visible on the original photo.  I think "the guy" is one of those in leather coat with planshet only. The planshet was brown leather. He may have a revolver hanging from his belt too.
Sorry,
KL
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66misos
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« Reply #78 on: July 21, 2014, 09:09:57 AM »

Hi,
thanks for comments.
Massimo, I know the color of parachute and harness should be more khaki and brighter, at least according to the photos and pictures above. They are quite contrasting against black/dark pilot coat. However, on the original photo nothing like that is visible. Therefore I tried to tone it dark/brown not to be so apparent.

...it is painting over original photo, so it is quite manipulative.
...Colorizing is always a manipulation, what you are doing now can be called "restoration" or "enhancement"  Wink ...

So I am not decided yet whether I will restore that guy as the pilot with parachute (IMHO nicer but more manipulative) or without parachute, only with leather case what would be visually closer to original photo. Huh
Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #79 on: July 21, 2014, 09:38:00 AM »

Hi Misos, hi Konstantin,
I see that there is not the expected contrast for the harness in the real photo, but the protrusion under the back is difficult to explain if not with a parachute.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #80 on: July 31, 2014, 05:48:25 PM »

Hi,
I do not want to bore/spam you with with endless alternatives. So I put 3 pilots into picture above - one with parachute, one with case with map and one with case without map. Wink
In all 3 cases the figure in the black coat is the same, only difference is in the equipment. IMHO that last one is closest to the original photo.
Regards,
   66misos
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66misos
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« Reply #81 on: August 06, 2014, 10:09:00 AM »

Hi,
no responses/objections regarding my last post, so here is the final version - observer (pilot) with leather case without map:


Now I am going to move on to another plane. Not decided yet whether summer Il-2 or Yak-9 formation. Or something else.

PS:
Interesting response from scalemodels.ru http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_p_1038745.html#1038745
You are trying to see something in the photo, which has undergone severe retouching? ...camouflage is likely "washed out" by photographer and shadows are painted by pencil.
... I revised so many photos "you never dreamed of." And believe me, is not a problem to retouch.
Here, for example. The plane - one, the rest - imprinted and painted on. And there? Got it! And here good editing! And here the picture cleaned. And eraser went through also this photo.
Well, on the topic of Sturmoviks... That photo, reprinted on the net - too retouching and montage. Or this, published in the journal, too...
For your information - every (every!) photo intended for publication in a newspaper or magazine was subjected to retouching. So it is strongly recommended not to use such photos to determine the color.


Regards,
   66misos
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learstang
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« Reply #82 on: August 06, 2014, 06:46:30 PM »

It looks good to me, 66misos!  Good job! Regarding the retouching of photographs, I have seen some Soviet photographs, and not just of aeroplanes, that are so retouched that they are really just drawings based upon a photograph.

Best Regards,

Jason
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #83 on: August 06, 2014, 10:48:39 PM »

Yes, I saw scans of original photos and they were full of dots, scratches and other defects. All things that disappear on books and sites.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #84 on: October 08, 2014, 07:43:28 PM »

Hi Misos,
I know you are done with this one and it was long time ago...  but at the time when you worked on this photo, we had focused on representation of metallic surface, snow clouds, parachutes etc.  We haven't really consider silver paint!

It looks that silver is still popular in Russia - paints similar to wartime VVS silver are still in production.  Google images for "серебрянка" and you will get the idea.

An interesting example at http://color-paints.ru/?p=9006#gallery
It shows a water tower painted in silver in summer and in winter.



Paint manufacturer says that their silver RAL 9006 ?Серебристый алюминий? looks especially effective in winter surrounded in white...

Considering example above, I would suggest following:
- undersides of your Il-2 nose (and area between LG legs) is too dark!  Even the rear fuselage underside could be lighter
- the areas in shadow are bluish gray, not pure gray you used.  Under certain angles pinkish is also visible???





HTH,
KL

« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 07:56:23 PM by KL » Logged
66misos
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« Reply #85 on: October 09, 2014, 09:02:47 AM »

Hi KL,
nice and interesting photos.
I think there are two different questions:
1.) Did VVS use silver (serebrjanka) paint for winter camoflage? Also your photos show that "serbrjanka" would work very effectively.
2.) Was this particular Il-2 painted silver or is it retouch or both?
     These both pictures are from scalemodels.ru http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_7288_start_780.html, from discussion about retouch:
     

     
At least that guy has face removed on the upper photo. Who knows what else is retouched...

I made that Il-2 sometime latter again in the "serebrjanka" appearance. It would be nice to have photo from "Zaika" but without "Zaika" watermark. It is in significantly better quality.
Regards,
   66misos
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