Hello from Australia.

[VelvetFrog66]

Hi.

I 'd just like to thanks Massimo for activating my account.

I'm here to learn about how to model Soviet aircraft of the GPW.

First off the rank is to get some advice on how to make an accurate Il-2 out of the AM 1:48 single-seater.

Cheers.

[Troy Smith]

Welcome, it's a very friendly and helpful site.

You'll want Jason AKA Learstang for that info in detail

One thing that the AM kit is noted for is having an inaccurate prop/spinner

Vector do one
http://www.neomega-resin.com/il-2-corrected-propeller-and-spinner-448-p.asp


Otherwise the kit is good, though it has metal fuselage and wings, easy enough to make 'wooden' by filling some panel lines, there are resing outer wings by KMC [no longer made] but these look to be more bother than filling some panel lines as require removing outer wings and replacing them.

Jason has a book due out on the Il-2 though which should cover this.

Very early Il-2s had metal wings/fuselage, and there are some of these documented here somewhere, there are a fair few small changes to be made to do this but nothing some modelling skill won't accomplish.

If you can find them, the older Eduard etch sets in the 48*** range are pretty extensive and don't feature the pre painted stuff either.

HTH
T

[VelvetFrog66]

Thanks for the welcome Troy.

Quite a difference between the spinners there. I will definitely be ordering one of those.

After going through the threads here I could see there were some problems with the AM kit that needed to be dealt with. Filling the fuselage seems fairly straightforward but the wings seems a bit more complicated.

I'll be posting some questions in the next couple of days in the appropriate part of the forum.

Cheers.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi, welcome here. I'm very interested to know about the difficulties on the wings.
Regards
Massimo

[learstang]

VelvetFrog66, I think Troy pretty much explained the problems with the AM kit. It's a good kit, but the spinner has to go - much too rounded as you can see (the Academy Il-2 kits in 1/72nd scale have the same problem, as they are basically scaled-down versions of the 1/48th scale AM kits). The metal wings are fine for the ski-equipped version, but the version they have on the box of the wheeled version ("Red 7"), had wooden wings. Both versions had the wooden fuselage. I believe Massimo has colour profiles for both versions on this site (which he did for my book). I have an excerpt from my Il-2 modelling guide (which will some day be published, if I ever finish it) that goes into more detail about the AM kits, if you'd like me to send it to you.

Best Regards,

Jason

[Dark Green Man]

Hello and welcome to the forum !

I'm surprised no one had mentioned the other correction to the AM single-eat Shturmovik.....
remove the external dust filter from the leading edge of the right wing root.

I do know of one photo that shows this filter on a single-seat machine that must be of the last or second to last series of single-seat machine--but these would have both the wooden rear fuselage and wooden outer wingtips.


have you made up your mind on what markings to do?
this would determine a number of smaller featues for the kit. (as mentioned by all the posts in this thread )

[VelvetFrog66]

Hi Guys.

Thanks for the extra input. Troy wasn't exaggerating, it is a very helpful site.

I'm very interested to know about the difficulties on the wings.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo.

A modeller has a thread here where he notes that the AM wing has a mix of early and late features. He said that the outer wing is correct for the 23mm gun version but the inner part has the inspection covers of an earlier 20mm gun wing.
Another perhaps more contentious point is that a rather notorious modeller who often sees "fatal flaws" in kits claims the the wings do not have the correct dihedral. I haven't seen the evidence for this myself but I thought I would see what the experts here felt.

VelvetFrog66, I think Troy pretty much explained the problems with the AM kit. It's a good kit, but the spinner has to go - much too rounded as you can see (the Academy Il-2 kits in 1/72nd scale have the same problem, as they are basically scaled-down versions of the 1/48th scale AM kits). The metal wings are fine for the ski-equipped version, but the version they have on the box of the wheeled version ("Red 7"), had wooden wings. Both versions had the wooden fuselage. I believe Massimo has colour profiles for both versions on this site (which he did for my book). I have an excerpt from my Il-2 modelling guide (which will some day be published, if I ever finish it) that goes into more detail about the AM kits, if you'd like me to send it to you.

Best Regards,

Jason

Thanks Jason, I would love to have a look at the excerpt your IL-2 modelling guide. No doubt it would answer questions I haven't even thought to ask.

I'm surprised no one had mentioned the other correction to the AM single-eat Shturmovik.....
remove the external dust filter from the leading edge of the right wing root.

I do know of one photo that shows this filter on a single-seat machine that must be of the last or second to last series of single-seat machine--but these would have both the wooden rear fuselage and wooden outer wingtips.

have you made up your mind on what markings to do?
this would determine a number of smaller features for the kit. (as mentioned by all the posts in this thread )

Thanks DGM.

I haven't made a firm decision about the scheme other than I want a summer one as I'm not a huge fan of white camouflage. I have the Academy boxing of the ski-equipped version but I will be building it with the wheels rather than the skis.
Ultimately the actual aircraft I model will be largely down to the modifications that need to be done to the kit. I'll try and find the easiest way to get a correct fuselage/wing configuration and then search for some markings that suit. Finding decals "should" be easier than major reconstruction work.

As to the dust filter, I did come across mention of it but thought I wouldn't have to make any decision until I had settled on the version I would be building. I'll certainly make a note of it.

Gotta say, I didn't realize there were so many variations in the IL-2 series.
You could build a bunch of them and none would be the same.

Regards to you all,
Robert

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Robert,
the dust filter on the intake is not related with the wooden wing. It was introduced around September-October 1942, short time before the introduction of twoseaters into production. At that time, the type of wing was related to the factory: metal wings with balance weights at the tips for Z.18, wooden wings without balance weights for planes built in Z.1 and 30.  The planes made in different factories had different and recognizable patterns of the black-green camouflages, and different positions and styles of red stars.
Regards
Massimo

[learstang]

Robert, that modeller is correct about the wing panels. The wing does have the smaller wing root panels typical of the earlier single-seaters with the 20mm ShVAK cannons. The panels were enlarged to make it possible to load bombs into the wing root bomb bays from the top of the wing. This was done during the production run of the single-seater. The Academy single-seater kit makes this same mistake, as it's basically the 1/48th scale kit reduced to 1/72nd scale. I will send that excerpt to you; I don't know if I have about the wing panels or not - if I don't, I need to add that to my book. Regarding the myriad versions of the Il-2, remember that 36,000 were built, at three huge factories, so the differences were legion. I've been researching the Il-2 for some six years now, but I still come across some surprises from time to time.

Regards,

Jason

[VelvetFrog66]

Thanks Jason.

Now that the wing business has been confirmed it's now a case of deciding to go for the earlier wing or the later one. It sort of looks about the same amount of work to do either one. I actually have a AM Sturmovik already built and painted. Unfortunately I followed the painting instructions so the camouflage is the three-colour one so it would need a re-paint. Of course now I know about the wing  that will also have to be dealt with too. I'll probably use the opportunity to do both early and late wings.

Regards,
Robert

[learstang]

You're welcome, Robert! My response would be that you can't have too many Il-2 models. I've finished 7, with 4 more in an advanced stage (2 already decalled, 3 painted, and 4 built).

Regards,

Jason

[VelvetFrog66]

Quite a stable of Sturmoviks you have got going there Jason. No doubt they make an impressive display. With 36,000 subjects it must be difficult to choose a particular one to model.

I've just been looking through the Il-2 section and I reckon I may have found a couple of likely subjects. One is "For Otradnova" which has wooden wings and a wooden fuselage with the strengthening strips. Quite a bit of filling involved but at least there are decals for it from AML.
 
The other one, "White 9" a model 1941 late, has metal wings and fuselage. Might make up for all the panel line filling on the other one. The 9 is done in an attractive style, the plan is to cut a mask for it. We'll see how that goes, not done it before.

I'm thinking now that I have some more specific questions that I move over to the Ilyushin thread to ask them. I'm sure the answers will be useful to others and they will be easier to find in the more appropriate thread.

Regards,
Robert
Robert