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Mig-3 Red 02; Winter 1942 questions
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Author Topic: Mig-3 Red 02; Winter 1942 questions  (Read 6297 times)
Iceman2632
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« on: July 16, 2014, 06:55:26 AM »

I'm in the process of planning a kit for a Group Build planned for 2015 in another model forums. Anyways, I am planning on building the Red 02 Mig-3 in the winter scheme. The aircraft belonged to a unit called the 12th GvIAP (ex 120th IAP unit); serial number: Red 02. The aircraft is in white with Olive green wings.

Now my questions:

When preparing to paint, should it be primed in a Russian Green color first then painted overall in White? Or was the aircraft painted in white directly from the factory for Winter in 1942? If they were to be painted a green color, what green would be the correct color? Also, what would be the correct color Russian Green for the wings?

Were the props painted black in front and aluminum on the backside of the propellers? I know the bottom portion of the propellers are aluminum.

What about the cowling area? Are they Aluminum as well?

The black color I'm looking to go with for the prop spinner is Interior Aircraft Black by Testors Model Master or Vallejo's Black Grey. For what it's worth, both colors seems to be close and the same.

The said aircraft I plan on building as is found on Wings Pallette website on page 8 of the Mig-3 in the USSR. http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/457/1/7#1

Perhaps Massimo Tessitori can give me more helpful insight/information on this? Thanks in advance.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2014, 07:21:15 PM »

Hi Iceman,
here is the page with the photo and drawings of this plane.  It is made by mixing pieces of prewar and wartime MiG-3s, and is out of standard on many respects.
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/red02.html
About white: the photo show a layer of acrilic white, probably painted over a camouflage, but it is completely hidden. So, I won't paint any green/black camo under it.
What black? Any black.
The (supposed) green over the wings looks glossy, so it was probably AII green.
Regards
Massimo



http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/red02.html
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Seawinder
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2014, 10:17:25 PM »

Were the props painted black in front and aluminum on the backside of the propellers? I know the bottom portion of the propellers are aluminum.

I think you have it backwards: The entire front face of the prop and a section of the rear face adjacent to the hub would be aluminum (whether painted or not I don't know, but I would guess aluminum lacquer). The remaining rear face would be black as an anti-glare measure.

Cheers,
Pip
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Iceman2632
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2014, 12:45:00 AM »

Thank you for the kind response by Massimo & Seawinder. I did notice the props in the link Massimo provided me for reference.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2014, 07:08:22 AM »

Hi,
part of the prop was left natural aluminium as prewar standard. Paint (including black one) was subject to wearing due to the abrasion of the air, particularly on the tips. Probably the plane had wings, propeller and engine from a prewar one, and the prop was not repainted black because aluminium was less visible than black on the snowy surface. The wings were of a prewar plane, but they were repainted because they appear gloss and without the star on the uppersurface that was typical of prewar planes. The common feeling is that the wings were green, but the traditional red interpretation can't be excluded 100% for the ceremony only.
Regards
Massimo
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otto
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2014, 11:16:39 AM »

Hello Iceman
I suggest to airbrush green preshading lines, as I did on my MiG-3 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1621.30). They have a nice effect under the white layer. I also applied brown preshading, but it's far less convincing: better different shades of green.
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KL
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2014, 06:40:45 PM »

...The common feeling is that the wings were green, but the traditional red interpretation can't be excluded 100% for the ceremony only.

That would be the only case during the WWII that an operational plane was painted specially for a unit ceremony.  Why for this ceremony and not for any other similar ceremony?  Why wings only?

IMHO, it is more likely that the plane was assembled from parts that were left in Moscow after Zavod 1 has been evacuated.  This may explain why rudder star is larger than the tail-fin star, that wings are not camouflaged in winter white, that engine covers are in different colour (actually different type of winter camouflage).

Red wings are an interpretation made in western popular literature in 1960es!  It was guessed that the wings were painted in high-visibility red to help in rescue operations.  It was an unlikely analogy with postwar polar explorations planes!!!

HTH,
KL      
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 06:42:56 PM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2014, 08:18:48 AM »

Hi Konstantin,
probably it is so, because many planes have a patchy look. Just, I mean that it can't be excluded, whatever is the reason for which artists drew it for many years.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2014, 07:40:29 PM »

The common feeling is that the wings were green, but the traditional red interpretation can't be excluded 100% for the ceremony only.

... I mean that it can't be excluded, whatever is the reason for which artists drew it for many years.

Hi Massimo,
Red wings on this particular plane are a myth - an urban legend that has persisted for half a century!

It's easy to understand how that has happened;  to a casual reader or a modeller more interested in RAF, USAAF or Luftwaffe airplanes, Russian plane painted in red looks convincing.  The theory that "you can't go wrong with red on a Russian plane - there are Red Army, Red Banner, Red Star, Red Square etc." isn't wrong - red colour did have a special meaning to Soviets.

Main problem with red wings is that the purpose of red colour can't be explained.  So far I have found in literature and in various forums only 3 attempts to explain purpose of red wings:

1.  Wings were painted in high-visibility red to help search and rescue operations
2.  Wings were painted in red because the pilot was a Spanish Civil War veteran (maybe a Spaniard?)
3.  Wings were painted in red specially for the ceremony when 120 iap became 12 guards iap

IMHO, none of these are realistic.  On the other hand, green wings make sense - wings are in summer camouflage, the rest of the plane is in winter camouflage.  Also, a veteran (he isn't a Spaniard) remembered this plane in an interview at http://www.sovietwarplanes.com/Rybalko.htm

- What color were the outer wing panels?
- Only green, it couldn't have been any kind of red.  But the nose they painted, yes, both with red and yellow paints.


If after posting this interview and concluding in your own research that the wings were green, you still consider red wings possible,  you are actually perpetuating a myth...  Huh

Regards,
KL    
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 09:16:18 PM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2014, 09:54:34 PM »

Hi Konstantin,
to exclude that something visible on a bw photo is red, one should report to have seen that plane.
Green wings are much less extraordinary than red wings, but they are unusual anyway: all painted in highly gloss green when usual planes were camouflaged with black bands.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2014, 12:01:40 AM »

to exclude that something visible on a bw photo is red, one should report to have seen that plane.

Hi Massimo,
It actually works the other way:  to propose that the wings were different colour than usual green or white, one has to have a proof (for example, a testimony from a pilot who saw the plane).

None of those who drew red wings or mentioned them as red, could have seen the plane....

Regards,
KL  
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 12:40:40 AM by KL » Logged
Iceman2632
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2014, 05:50:53 AM »

Hold on fellas. I didn't want my thread turn into a flame war dispute over whether or not the wings were red or green.  Cool
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2014, 07:04:19 AM »

Hi Iceman, hi Konstantin, this is right.
Anyway I am not proposing that wings were red. I have only written that it can't be excluded.
Besides, uniform gloss green wings are not usual in 1942. It is an exception anyway.
Regards
Massimo
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