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Author Topic: Il-2 shot down  (Read 7371 times)
66misos
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« on: November 12, 2014, 07:49:15 PM »

Hi,
this is the next photo I want to colorize:

The resolution is not very good (however, the best from those I found), but there are several reasons why it attracts me:
- I want to do black-green Il-2,
- there should be visible primer - at least on propeller blades - what color?
- there are damages on the rear fuselage - what color?
- there are exposed internal surfaces (open cover bellow exhaust) - what color?
So keep fingers, please Wink
Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2014, 08:00:54 PM »

Hi Misos,
it's a good photo indeed.
The damage on the rear fuselage looks due to stripping away the fabric layer. It should appear yellow.
Hard to say about the opened panel. I suppose it is zinc chromate, maybe on the greenish side.
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2014, 01:12:14 AM »

The exposed portion of the propellers should be bare metal, from the look of it. The exposed engine panel also might be a medium grey, A-14 Steel Grey.

Regards,

Jason
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66misos
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Posts: 1479

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2014, 05:14:36 PM »

Hi,
this I found at Mig3 page in the "Table of inside colors and primers utilized on Soviet warplanes 1937-1950" section at http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/internal-colors-primers/internal-colors-primers.html:

"IL-2M, straight duralumin wing. The plane was carrying black and green camouflage and colors are preserved beautifully! Undersides are still shiny! Interior is primed with "zinc-chromate?, bomb bay sides are covered with the fabric lined plywood painted in silver. Access covers, gun bay covers and flaps skinning - all made of plywood. All internal surfaces are primed with zinc-chromate of different shades, in places it looks like Russian "aotake?. Serial number is preserved on the landing gear doors. No traces of other paints there."

"My" plane is also black-green, yellow-green primer would make it more colorfull and as there is no other clear evidence, I decided to make the internal surfaces same as Il-2M in the Kiev museum.

Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2014, 07:08:10 AM »

Hi Misos, this looks likely. Perhaps dark red brown could be visible somewhere, but not distinguishable from green or dark grey on a bw photo.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2014, 07:18:26 PM »

Hi,
here is my up-today work:

Seems green turns out to be too yellowish Sad
I guess it should be something like this:


Camoflage scheme is similar to this one from Mig3 page http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il2-late1941/il2-late1941.htm


Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2014, 08:18:29 PM »

Hi Misos, it's a good start.
I agree that the green is somewhat too yellowish.
I think that the factory number on the nacelle is red.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2014, 09:11:13 PM »

Hi Misos,
that open engine panel is part of the "bronekorpus", made of steel, not duraluminium - so, the correct primer should be ALG-5 (gray-green, lighter than AMT-4 (i.e. 4BO))



Massimo, are you sure there is no fuselage star???

Regards,
KL
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learstang
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2014, 11:17:49 PM »

Konstantin, do you believe that ALG-5 is much like the British Interior Green? They're both grey-green colours, but it looks like the ALG-5 is quite a bit darker (I realise that the ALG-1 and ALG-5 primers varied quite a bit in colour).

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

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KL
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2014, 11:42:26 PM »

pigments in "British Interior Green" and ALG-5 are different, so their colors are most likely different

British Interior Green:
yellow zinc-chromatte + small amount of black pigment

ALG-5:
50% yellow zinc-chromatte + 50% (equal amount of) gray A-14


ALG-5 contains white pigments and fillers which are not present in "Interior Green".  For what I have seen, "Interior Green" is close to "olive green", ALG-5 should be "gray-green".

Regards,
KL   
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2014, 06:02:51 AM »

Hi Konstantin,
on the plane of the drawing, you mean? Yes, the photo is clear

Usually stars on the fuselages of Il-2s in July-August 1941 were very large, but there is no trace on this photo.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2014, 11:21:07 AM »

Hi,
these 2 photos are from Mig3 page and they both should show the colorized Il-2. There is no fuselage red star.





They better show plane itself, but they are in even lower resolution than colorized one.
Regards,
   66misos
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KL
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« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2014, 07:57:13 PM »

Hi Massimo,
I see, there is definitively no fuselage stars. Interesting, because it's non-standard.
Maybe the photo was taken in 1942, not in 1941?

Regards,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2014, 10:57:05 AM »

Hi KL,
I suppose that the plane was built in July-August 1941 in Z,18, but it could be not the case.
The factory number is nearly readable, and it doesn't seem to start with 18. 
Another possibility is that the plane was made in z. 381, that built very few planes before being converted to Lavochkins in late 1942.
Very few photos are known with positive identification of these planes, but it's thought that they had wooden fuselage and the same type of metallic wings utilized in 1941.
Photos of plane of z 381 is known, and it is without markings on the fuselage. Anyway the canopy with reduced armour suggests a plane built in summer 1941, or at least before 1942 that was the year on which Z.381 produced the most part of its few Il-2s.
All what I know on this is here, at the bottom of the page:
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il2-1942/il-2model1942.htm
Another plane of z.381 with unretractable ski gear is here:
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il2-1942/il-2model1942wintercamo.htm
It is possible that some misidentified plane of z-381 could be found here:
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il2-late1941/il2-late1941.htm

Planes of Z.381 could wear a camo pattern similar to that used on planes of Z.18 around August 1941, and by Z.30 in 1942 and 1943. This makes them difficult to identify.
Besides, the fuselage star looks missing in some planes built by Z.1 in 1942 and 1943. Unclear if it was omitted at the factory, or deleted in some units.
Anyway, plane n.12 has a metallic rear fuselage and tail (parallel lines on the fin identify this characteristic), and for what I know Z.18 was the only one to build metallic rear fuselages on part of its planes up to the second half of 1941.

Regards
Massimo

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2014, 04:23:49 PM »

Hi Misos,
look at this photo:
http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_988385_1393626640_getImage-1.jpg.html
It's very clear, although the resolution isn't particularly high. It could be a candidate for colorizing.
Regards
Massimo
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