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Author Topic: La-5FN of V.I. Popkov  (Read 43601 times)
Dark Green Man
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« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2007, 01:18:42 AM »


onions ? potato's ? turnips ?
I didn't know this was a garden , I thought it was an aviation forum !? Embarrassed

all kidding aside, I want to thank you (all) for an interesting discussion and some very interesting photos
some of which I have not seen before.
the evolution of the LaGG-3 should have been a clue to the fact that continued evolution of the type would not be easy either.
although the 'In Action' series of books on the GPW-era VVS are excellent sources for photographs, please do not read the text ; you will only get confused.

I purchased my copy of Milos' La-7 book on ebay for $17.00 (US) before shipping and handling.
the only place I know of selling the La-5 book is selling it for $31 !? -you do the math-
when I find a reasonably priced copy I will be certain to add it to my collection.

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"when we lose the right to be different, we lose the priviledge to be free"--Charles Evans Hughes
John Thompson
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« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2007, 03:08:31 AM »



the only place I know of selling the La-5 book is selling it for $31 !? -you do the math-
when I find a reasonably priced copy I will be certain to add it to my collection.

[/color]

Oops - I paid $43 Cdn at Toronto's Aviation World for the La-5 book, and considered it money well spent! As was discussed in another thread, sometimes common sense isn't a factor in modelbuilding purchasing decisions... In my case, especially when it has anything to do with the La-5!? Cheesy

John
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Dark Green Man
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« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2007, 05:28:45 PM »


Oops - I paid $43 CDN at Toronto's Aviation World for the La-5 book, and considered it money well spent! As was discussed in another thread, sometimes common sense isn't a factor in model-building purchasing decisions... In my case, especially when it has anything to do with the La-5!? Cheesy


Thank You, John !
you have brightened my day and given me a laugh to boot.
at a 23% exchange rate (probably not accurate) it comes out to $33.11 US so maybe it isn't so overpriced as I thought.
as for model-building common sense, I know what you mean.
we all have our own unique 'passions' for certain aircraft or camo patterns or aircraft flown be aces or other notable pilot, etc etc.
besides, who says a hobby has to be perfectly sensible anyway?
what fun would that be ?

[/color]
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"when we lose the right to be different, we lose the priviledge to be free"--Charles Evans Hughes
marluc
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« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2007, 10:25:17 PM »

Renato:

I just want to congratulate you for this wonderful and interesting investigation.And to the forumers who contributed to make this excellent thread.Greetings:

Martin
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Renato71
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« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2007, 05:02:30 PM »

Hi all,

Small addition to my research… I've found an interview with Popkov!
http://militaryvideo.ru/eng/index.php?ind=news&op=news_show_single&ide=172

It's in Russian; I'll try to extract as much info as possible. For now just few most interesting screenshots of pics from his personal archive:

This could be an early one, only one star on shoulder…


With the boys…


Entering "75", I guess his aircraft prior to crash in 1943 (before he got his first HSU)…


This one is extremely rare:

Next to Yak-9 (I think -9U), while for a short period of time 5th GIAP had Yak's in April 1945. But, pilots were not very happy with Yak, so they demanded and got their old La-5's back. I believe that during this "Return of the La", some of the La-7's slipped through.
It is very possible that during this re-transition Popkov had a chance to fly La-7 and to score one (sole?) victory on it.

Also, to support some details regarding 5th GIAP (should I post a fresh thread on that subject?), here are some pics of another fine pilot from 5th GIAP, Georgiy Baevsky (Баевский Георгий Артурович):

Large part of the prop root is painted white…


Here, a smaller portion is painted…


Profile of "68" with lions head! Not sure about authors sources. December 1943…


This Yak sports 19 victories, the total tally for Baevsky, April 1945…


And a pic that now adds(?) to confusion…


Comment says about decoration added toward the end of war, "tiger ripping apart a jackal with Hitler's head".

Well, if you mistranslate above sentence couple of times back-and forth, confuse what was "on the other side", confuse what was on the other side "of what" or "in regard to what", or whose head it was… Then you have "tigers head on one side and HSU on the other" or something similar.

BR
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Renato
John Thompson
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« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2007, 07:19:36 PM »

Really excellent! Thank you, Renato!

John
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2007, 09:40:05 PM »

Hi Renato, Smiley
what an excellent research! Thank you for sharing it.
Do you think that the Yak-9 with the tiger is the same as n.36?
Massimo
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Renato71
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« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2007, 11:19:56 AM »

Do you think that the Yak-9 with the tiger is the same as n.36?

Well, all sources claim so, but I was not able to find any more pics. I ran into those while searching for cross-references, and Baevsky's pics were kinda most interesting at the moment. Of interest is that spiner on all profiles of Yak-9U is NOT in white, nor any of them shows two stripes around fuselage as most of (popular) La-5 profiles for that period of time do show.

I've also found several profiles of "Veselye rebyata" a/c borts 12 and 14 with 3-4 white or red/white victory stars, white spinner, white tip of tail, but no pic.

Regarding 5th GIAP, I've noted that they had quite a mix of a/c and "gift" inscriptions. If I remember correctly, there is a pic od Baevsky in cockpit of La-5 (F?) where you can see that a/c was donated by some kolhoz...

BR
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Renato
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2007, 10:24:10 PM »

Hi Renato, Smiley
thank you for the clarifications. This Yak-9 would be amazing for a model.
Your hypothesis on the origin of the description of the lion's head is interesting, but I think that no any translating program can mistake a tiger with a lion. It would be necessary a wide sum of errors, both of animal recognition and of translation.
Massimo
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John Thompson
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« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2007, 01:34:19 AM »

Hi Renato, Smiley
thank you for the clarifications. This Yak-9 would be amazing for a model.
Massimo

You're in luck - the Amodel 1/72 Yak-9U kit includes decals for Baevsky's Yak. In fact, with this kit and the Amodel reissue of the KP La-5FN, which has decals for Baevsky's "White 68", you can make a small collection of this pilot's fighters - *both* of the aircraft shown in the profiles posted by Renato!? Wink

John
« Last Edit: August 07, 2007, 03:14:42 AM by John Thompson » Logged
richard.kiss
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« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2011, 08:02:14 PM »

we have examined Renato's interesting topic and attempted to interpret Popkov's Stallion as a profile drawing.

here is the result:


any comments are welcome!
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2011, 09:13:49 PM »

Hi Richard,
beautifu drawing indeed.
If I don't miss, some photos of the previous page of this topic suggested that the rudder was partly trimmed in white.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2011, 06:29:39 AM »

Very nice!

Authentic AMT-11 and AMT-12 should be somewhat darker (when new).  Check "AMT-11 and AMT-12 Controversy" tread at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1151.0
I would try with AMT-11 as dark as your light gray and AMT-12 close (80-90%) to matt black.

IMHO, this is yet another case where profile artist started from poor quality photos and relied extensively on photo interpretation and their "artistic license".
Better quality photos, other photos of the same plane and photos of other planes from the same unit show only standard colours, standard camouflage scheme and standard markings.  No dark brown / green patches, no yellow bordered stars.

This and similar cases only confirm that modelers should try to understand those standards/rules if they care for authenticity.  "There were no rules, those were recommendations only" concept usually leads to mistakes.

Happy modeling,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2011, 09:01:12 AM »

Quote

"Виталий Попков у своего Ла-5ФН."
(Vitalii Popkov with his La-5FN)


"Baevsky-Popkov-Eremenko"

This way, both the authors of color profiles with white-capped tail and those that painted profiles with diagonal strips are misinterpreting various descriptions. Maybe in some interview Popkov (or somebody from his unit) spoke of "white trim on tail" and on other occasion of "white stripe". But, in fact it is "trimmed with white stripe". Lost in translation, ayeh?

Looking at the tail, the dark grey band has a different height: on 01 it passes under the star, on the white-nosed plane it passes above. They are not the same plane.



This has the white nose, but its exhaust is clearly from an F

Quote
Entering "75", I guess his aircraft prior to crash in 1943 (before he got his first HSU)?
Who knows if this 75 is the above FN with white nose? I guess so. From the photos, it's impossible to say if it had white bands.

Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 09:06:04 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2012, 04:48:55 PM »

Hello All,

this is my first post here - my interpretation of the Popkov's La-5FN. I read this discussion and AMT11/AM12 controversy for a while and this is the result. You can find the full article with the additional photos at http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal12/11601-11700/gal11633-La-5-Sekula/00.shtm

Best regards,
       66misos











« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 10:18:47 AM by 66misos » Logged

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