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Author Topic: "Ivan Kozhedub La-5 & La-7"  (Read 44771 times)
66misos
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« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2015, 06:25:59 PM »

Hi Massimo,
...Couldn't it be that a second plane '27' was painted to represent the original one?...
It is quite possible, but I do not have info about that.

Ragarding photo of planes from 176 GIAP I am confused by missing red front engine covling and red triandle there.
Kozedub's La-7 had it as well as red triangles are painted on the profiles of the other planes from 176 giap:

S.M. Kramarenko


A.S. Kumanichkin




P.S.Chupikov, commander of 176 giap:



and link to dark "06" from the "group photo" on the previous page:
http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1608.0


Regards,
  66misos
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 06:56:57 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2015, 10:10:34 PM »

Hi Misos,
on the photo, the tail of 18 doesn't seem exactly as on the drawing, but as on plane 25.
I wonder if there is any evidence that the plane of Chupikov was n.16. The profile looks by EP, am I wrong?
About plane 06, I've written that it could have had a red spinner, but now I see a sample of red on the star of the plane on the background, and it doesn't seem the same shade. So, it had to be green or grey.
Regards
Massimo
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barneybolac
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2015, 10:10:31 PM »

Hi Misos,
of course, the spinner on the operative plane was red. White, if any, could be some repainting before the war after the plane became an icon.
I remember the photo from the other side, with the emblem on a dark rectangle. My idea is that the plane was camouflaged as all, it was faded at the date of that photo session, and the photographer understood that the emblem would have been nearly unvisible on the original background, so he asked to paint a contrasting background. I can't say the date of the photo session.
About the photo of 14, I would say that the number is somewhat darker than the star, I checked with the instruments of Photoshop confirming this. But it doesn't seem silver. I can't say if it's a darker white (seems strange, if both numbers and stars were added in factory) or yellow or what else.
Perhaps the plane was born with a plain red star and the white outline is a later addition... but it looks too accurate. Perhaps it was accurately repainted for the photo session.
Regards
Massimo


Looks like the #14 aircraft had a new owner in Cyril A Yevstigneev as well as a new paint job.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fairaces.narod.ru%2Fall1%2Fevstign.htm&edit-text=

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsoviet-aces-1936-53.ru%2Fabc%2Fe%2Fevstignv.htm&edit-text=







The  profile misses the badge under the canopy I think due to the glare in the 1st photo. I did find a photo that shows the badge as well as all the text across it seen below.





« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 10:46:54 PM by barneybolac » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2015, 07:10:43 AM »

Hi Rodney,
very interesting indeed.
On the page about Yestigneev there is a photo, a profile and text about another of his planes:
Quote
In early March 1944, at the request of the regimental commander, he went on an exceptional risk, try out "fitness for work" muddy airfield. At start of his fighter, almost fly into a ravine, stood on end, wheels bogged down in the mud. A month later of - the negligence of the representative of the air army, messed up the oxygen cylinder with air, starting with a balloon pump exploded. Evstigneeva burned face and thrown out of the cab, and the car, speeding up the running, ran on the airfield, then abruptly turned and stopped. Yevstigneev insisted on repairing its "war horse", and now his left side was covered with intricate camouflage that hid patches, which were deposited black figures "95" with red trim.

On this machine, he had to fight at Jassy. In early April, Chisinau over the airfield, at low altitude, he shot down 4-engined FW-200 "Condor". But this "curiosity" was not officially recorded on his battle score. In 27 sorties at Jassy and 13 air battles Yevstigneev senior lieutenant shot down 7 enemy planes.

Quote


Fighter La-5FN Captain KA Evstigneeva. 178th GvIAP, autumn 1944.
Well, the photo and text speak of plane 95, but the profile shows it as 96. I wonder how this can be explained.
The photo itself looks unconvincing. The plane looks more a La-7 than a La-5FN. Could it be the photo of another plane, maybe of 1945, that had in common with the one of Yestigneev the number and the position only?
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 07:30:33 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2015, 10:28:42 AM »

About plane 14: this time, all the marks look shining to my eye. The star outline, the slogan, the number and the chevron. They could be silver. The slogan had (probably) the same color of the star outline, and is contoured.
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2015, 05:21:48 PM »

That aeroplane "95" does appear to be an La-7 - it doesn't seem to have the under cowling radiator. Regarding "14", I agree that the chevron, fuselage star outline, and slogan look like they might be silver, but the number looks different, like it might still be white.

Regards,

Jason
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2015, 08:16:11 PM »

Hi,
I agree with Jason, at least here:

the chevron, fuselage star outline, and slogan look like they might be one color (silver?, yellow?), but the number "14" looks brighter (white?).
Unfortunately the photo is too grainy - I am not sure whether number is outlined - at least part of "1" over AMT-7 looks like outlined.

Here:

front part of the engine cowling and probably also spinner are brighter than fuselage and red star (white?, light blue?...)

The badge painted bellow the windshield/cockpit:

and here:

does not look very much like Guard emblem (Gvardia):

like painted here:

If yes, then gold/yellow leaves are much darker than color of slogan, e.g. slogan would not be yellow.
Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2015, 10:16:06 PM »

Hi,
maybe the leaves were painted green.
Regards
Massimo
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barneybolac
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« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2015, 10:51:10 PM »


Here:

front part of the engine cowling and probably also spinner are brighter than fuselage and red star (white?, light blue?...)



Regards,
   66misos

Look at the back side of the propeller blades they are not painted black.
They seem to be the same colour as the cowling & spinner
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 06:33:14 AM by barneybolac » Logged
barneybolac
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« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2015, 06:30:56 AM »

Hi Rodney,
very interesting indeed.
On the page about Yestigneev there is a photo, a profile and text about another of his planes:
Quote
In early March 1944, at the request of the regimental commander, he went on an exceptional risk, try out "fitness for work" muddy airfield. At start of his fighter, almost fly into a ravine, stood on end, wheels bogged down in the mud. A month later of - the negligence of the representative of the air army, messed up the oxygen cylinder with air, starting with a balloon pump exploded. Evstigneeva burned face and thrown out of the cab, and the car, speeding up the running, ran on the airfield, then abruptly turned and stopped. Yevstigneev insisted on repairing its "war horse", and now his left side was covered with intricate camouflage that hid patches, which were deposited black figures "95" with red trim.

On this machine, he had to fight at Jassy. In early April, Chisinau over the airfield, at low altitude, he shot down 4-engined FW-200 "Condor". But this "curiosity" was not officially recorded on his battle score. In 27 sorties at Jassy and 13 air battles Yevstigneev senior lieutenant shot down 7 enemy planes.

Quote


Fighter La-5FN Captain KA Evstigneeva. 178th GvIAP, autumn 1944.
Well, the photo and text speak of plane 95, but the profile shows it as 96. I wonder how this can be explained.
The photo itself looks unconvincing. The plane looks more a La-7 than a La-5FN. Could it be the photo of another plane, maybe of 1945, that had in common with the one of Yestigneev the number and the position only?
Regards
Massimo


Possibly some confusion with the Google translation not getting what it says in Russian quite right?
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barneybolac
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« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2015, 06:38:38 AM »

There is a couple of other profiles of this aircraft I found.



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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2015, 06:51:29 AM »

Hi,
the colors of the nose are rather discordant. A photo seems to show a light ring, as on the profile of Bykov. I wonder if there is any written document on the real color.
Note the light and matt color of prop blades too on the photo.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2015, 07:35:58 PM »

Hi,
this profile with bright (light blue) front of the engine cowling:

is draw by M.N.Orlov, not Bykov.
Guard emblem is missing under the canopy.
IMHO lighter color on the propeller blades  is matt dust and/or the same color as on the front engine cowling (and spinner) - they simply did not mask propeller blades before spraying that light color:


Another photo of the La-7 from 176 giap from February 1945 found at http://www.redbanner.co.uk/History/Archive/kozhedub%20la-7/white27.html

Note single color appearance on the upper surfaces on all aircraft.
Regrads,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2015, 08:44:44 PM »

Hi Misos
Quote
the same color as on the front engine cowling (and spinner) - they simply did not mask propeller blades before spraying that light color:
I agree on the same color, but note that the rear of the blade is relatively light up to its tip.
Quote
Another photo of the La-7 from 176 giap from February 1945 found at http://www.redbanner.co.uk/History/Archive/kozhedub%20la-7/white27.html
Can resemble as the tail up plane n.95. Perhaps green with red nose?
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2015, 09:59:08 AM »

Hi,
I'm trying to make some profiles, but I am confused. Please help me to make some order:
Kozedub's plane n.14 was a La-5F, with the oblique slogan on its right side and another, oblique too, on its left side.
Estigneev's plane n.14  was a La-5FN, not the same plane them, with a chevron and an inscription on its left side, a guards badge, possibly a light blue nose. Are there photos showing the right side of the plane?
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 10:11:16 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
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