|
Massimo Tessitori
|
 |
« Reply #90 on: June 12, 2015, 07:34:55 AM » |
|
Hi Misos, hi all, The 19 iap became 176 giap in August 19, 1944 when rearmed to new La-7... Kozhedub arrived to this regiment 3 days latter together with other pilots...
On August 23, 1944 Kozhedub found his La-7 "27", the aircraft in which he arrived to the 176 giap, painted red on the engine cowling and white on the tail to look like other machines in this regiment... Interesting. So, in a progression of profiles, one could start with his La-7 without the red nose and white tail. Is it known if his previous regiment had some distinctive painting? Regards Massimo |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
66misos
|
|
« Reply #91 on: June 19, 2015, 02:16:36 PM » |
|
Hi, interesting photos and info were posted by Messoed at http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/forum/0/co/164809.htm: "...there were two exhibition in 1945. One of them...exhibits were pictures painted by soldiers-artists... The second exhibition "Fighting way the 16th Air Army. From the Volga to the Elbe", where Soviet and German military equipment was displayed, was held near Berlin in Woltersdorf..."  Here I enlarged the part with the plane:  They both are related to this one:  I am pretty sure somewhere out there must be a photo clearly showing whether Kozhedub's La-7 had either single-grey or two-grey camouflage. Only to find it... Regards, 66misos |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 02:31:12 PM by 66misos »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Massimo Tessitori
|
|
« Reply #92 on: June 19, 2015, 03:47:13 PM » |
|
Hi Misos, interesting thing. So the photo with all those medals painted on was not taken at frunze academy.
The finish look semigloss, well different from the chalky one of the famous photo with the victories painted on the site. My first impression is that the plane was repainted grey, with victories on both sides.
Regards
Massimo
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Flavio
Newbie
Posts: 42
|
|
« Reply #93 on: June 19, 2015, 05:14:11 PM » |
|
Thanks for sharing 66Misos.
I agree with you; in my opinion Russian archives are full of never seen photos, and it is high probable that Kozhedub's La-7 "27" was high photographed at the end of the war. Russian enthusiasts can help us.
Massimo in my opinion, according to the photo I posted on reply #76, the camouflage on that occasion was still in two colours...but confirmation right now is very difficoult.
Flavio
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Massimo Tessitori
|
|
« Reply #94 on: June 20, 2015, 09:46:45 AM » |
|
Hi Flavio, the photo shows plane 27 still in service, being refuelled (I suppose) of compressed air. The background is different from the exposition in Germany on a sort of pedestal between trees.  So we can't know for sure if the plane was repainted between those shots. But, for what I see, the division line between the camouflage and the blue lower surface on the rear fuselage sides seems to have exactly the same position of this photo: this is in favour of the plane still camouflaged. Unfortunately it doesn't say much if the decorations and the red spinner were already present on the photo of the operative plane in May 1945, after the return of Kozhedub from Moscow. There is still the possibility that the reconstruction of the Russian decals sheet is right, and Kozhedub had a single Guards mark at that time, while it could have had the third HSU starlet at the time of the exposition. Regards Massimo |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Flavio
Newbie
Posts: 42
|
|
« Reply #95 on: June 20, 2015, 10:31:42 AM » |
|
...possibility that the reconstruction of the Russian decals sheet is right, ....
Massimo
Forgive me Massimo, but I missed one point; what is the decal sheet you are refferring? Flavio |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Massimo Tessitori
|
|
« Reply #96 on: June 20, 2015, 12:57:24 PM » |
|
Hi Flavio, the one of the first post.  Regards Massimo |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
KL
|
|
« Reply #97 on: June 20, 2015, 06:51:29 PM » |
|
...possibility that the reconstruction of the Russian decals sheet is right, ....
Forgive me Massimo, but I missed one point; what is the decal sheet you are refferring? It isn't a decal sheet; it's a poster made by Stankov. It should be taken with a "grain of salt", like everything else from him... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Flavio
Newbie
Posts: 42
|
|
« Reply #98 on: June 20, 2015, 10:35:31 PM » |
|
Yes KL,
this is a collection of a/c flown by Kozhedub made by Stankov.
I wrote him more than a year ago asking some information about the research he made about La-7 "27". Stankov replied me he was writing a book about Kozhedub and all his research will be there; unfortunately the book is still in progress.
I also have some doubts about these two profiles; the first profile should represent La-7 "27" during the war; perhaps Stankov has photographic evidence confirming the white spinner and the badge on the nose. The second profile is supposed to represent the plane immediately after the war; this time we have photographic proof of the nose, otherwise in the fuselage are missing the 62 small victory marks.
Very interesting (if confirmed) is the serial number of the plane №45210127; this can help us to find where and when it was manufactured (I am not an expert of Soviet aircraft production plants).
Flavio
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Dark Green Man
|
|
« Reply #99 on: June 21, 2015, 01:38:01 AM » |
|
if that is true.....
45 indicates La-7(product number)
21 is Zavod 21 at Gorky
01 is series
27 is unit
that would mean that it is the 27th La-7 made at Gorky - a very early La-7
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"when we lose the right to be different, we lose the priviledge to be free"--Charles Evans Hughes
|
|
|
|
KL
|
|
« Reply #100 on: June 21, 2015, 09:03:10 AM » |
|
this is a collection of a/c flown by Kozhedub made by Stankov.
...
I also have some doubts about these two profiles
...
Following is another poster made by Stankv: listing of all Kozhedub's victories: ![](https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/3907/deruluft.0/0_3b1c8_ca54d457_L.jpg" width="357" height="500") FYI, there are 150 victories!!! This type of information is acceptable to a certain part of Russian public, but not to those who are knowledgeable... Since in reality Kozhedub had some 60 victories, I would say that about 40% of the information in Stankov's poster is "true", already known. Remaining 60% are Stankov's fairy-tails... KL |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Massimo Tessitori
|
|
« Reply #101 on: June 21, 2015, 09:16:26 PM » |
|
The absence of victory starlets is really strange. I guess that they were painted contemporarily to the medals at the war's end, maybe just before the famous photos.
Regards
Massimo
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Massimo Tessitori
|
|
« Reply #102 on: June 21, 2015, 09:26:18 PM » |
|
45 indicates La-7(product number)
21 is Zavod 21 at Gorky
01 is series
27 is unit
that would mean that it is the 27th La-7 made at Gorky - a very early La-7 I'm doubtful, the font of the bort number suggests zavod 381. According to observations of Ruchkovsky, the thinner and more angular numbers are associated with this factory, while smaller stars and more rounded numbers are typical of z.21 Regards Massimo |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Flavio
Newbie
Posts: 42
|
|
« Reply #103 on: June 22, 2015, 07:45:30 PM » |
|
Massimo,
please, can you give me some example of number used by zavod 381 and zavod 21? Just to understand the difference, thank you.
Flavio
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Massimo Tessitori
|
|
« Reply #104 on: June 22, 2015, 08:52:08 PM » |
|
Hi Flavio,  this should be of Z.21. Small stars, thick and rounded numbers.  This should be of Z.381. Thinner numbers, more angular with flattened top and bottom of rounded numbers, curved leg of 2, wider stars.  again Z.381 The font and the size of the stars of Kozhedub's plane suggest Z.381. The difference in fonts is so visible on La-7s only, not on La-5FN. Regards Massimo |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
