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Author Topic: "Ivan Kozhedub La-5 & La-7"  (Read 41222 times)
barneybolac
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Posts: 320


« Reply #150 on: May 03, 2017, 09:08:27 AM »

Hi Rodney,
very interesting indeed.
On the page about Yestigneev there is a photo, a profile and text about another of his planes:
Quote
In early March 1944, at the request of the regimental commander, he went on an exceptional risk, try out "fitness for work" muddy airfield. At start of his fighter, almost fly into a ravine, stood on end, wheels bogged down in the mud. A month later of - the negligence of the representative of the air army, messed up the oxygen cylinder with air, starting with a balloon pump exploded. Evstigneeva burned face and thrown out of the cab, and the car, speeding up the running, ran on the airfield, then abruptly turned and stopped. Yevstigneev insisted on repairing its "war horse", and now his left side was covered with intricate camouflage that hid patches, which were deposited black figures "95" with red trim.

On this machine, he had to fight at Jassy. In early April, Chisinau over the airfield, at low altitude, he shot down 4-engined FW-200 "Condor". But this "curiosity" was not officially recorded on his battle score. In 27 sorties at Jassy and 13 air battles Yevstigneev senior lieutenant shot down 7 enemy planes.

Quote


Fighter La-5FN Captain KA Evstigneeva. 178th GvIAP, autumn 1944.
Well, the photo and text speak of plane 95, but the profile shows it as 96. I wonder how this can be explained.
The photo itself looks unconvincing. The plane looks more a La-7 than a La-5FN. Could it be the photo of another plane, maybe of 1945, that had in common with the one of Yestigneev the number and the position only?
Regards
Massimo


Bit off topic how ever I think this link has his LA-5.



http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/e/evstignv.htm
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #151 on: May 03, 2017, 04:41:16 PM »

Hi,
interesting photo indeed.
Anyway, it is heavily retouched. The ground is strange and let see obvious signs of cloning pixels. The inscription is even too sharp.
I would wait for some confirmation before considering this image as real.
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #152 on: June 20, 2017, 08:46:45 AM »

Hi,
here is a photo of the plane of Kozhedub, presumably of 1945, never seen before.

http://goskatalog.ru/portal/#/collections?id=8003610

Regards
Massimo
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barneybolac
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Posts: 320


« Reply #153 on: June 20, 2017, 09:02:11 AM »

Hi,
here is a photo of the plane of Kozhedub, presumably of 1945, never seen before.

http://goskatalog.ru/portal/#/collections?id=8003610

Regards
Massimo

Google translation.


-
The photo. A group portrait at VDNKh (against the backdrop of Ivan Kozhedub's plane).

Period of creation:
1945
Material, technique:
Photo printing, photo paper (glossy)
The size:
10.6 x 14.8 centimeters
Place of origin:
-
Number in the State Tax Administration:
7891420
GIC number (CP):
PCM-21311/108
Inventory number:
-


Location
State regional budget cultural institution "Perm Local History Museum"


Group photo portrait against the background of the wooden pavilion VDNH with the inscription "1942" and the fighter LA-7 (the car of the thrice Hero of the Soviet Union I. Kozhedub). Represented in full growth are two military men (sergeants are military comrades MP Arsentieva) and two girls in white blouses and dark skirts.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #154 on: June 20, 2017, 10:34:32 AM »

Hi,
thank you for the translation.
So, the original photo is in a museum in Perm, I wonder if it was taken in Germany during the already discussed exhibition, or if this pavillon has another location in Soviet Union. What could VDNH mean?
The most important thing, in my view, is the colouring. The photo gives the idea of an uniform grey, only vague shadows suggest a camouflage.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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Posts: 1474

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


WWW
« Reply #155 on: June 20, 2017, 11:22:26 AM »

Hi All,
very interesting photo dated on year 1945, in front of the building/exhibition "1942" of VDNCh (VDNCh = Exhibition of the Nation economy achievements, located in Moscow, http://vdnh.ru/en)
My understanding is that printed photo itself is located in museum in Perm.
Regards,
   66misos
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Johann
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Posts: 216



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« Reply #156 on: June 21, 2017, 06:39:08 AM »

VDNCh = Exhibition of the Nation economy achievements, located in Moscow
Exhibition of Achievements of National Economy - To be precise

Does it look like a line of camouflage, or am I mistaken?

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #157 on: June 21, 2017, 01:13:11 PM »

Hi,
I don't know... it seems to continue on the light blue part. there is some uncertain change of shade close to the star and to the fillet of the fin.
I think that they made something on this plane in late spring/summer 1945, perhaps they repainted it dark grey and this let see vaguely the previous camouflage.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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Posts: 1474

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #158 on: June 21, 2017, 01:51:13 PM »

Hi,
compare photo above with photo from http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/board/index.php?topic=2021.msg17234#msg17234, that was taken at exhibition near Berlin also in 1945 and camouflage fields are apparent:


However, four emblems painted on the red triangle were only on the left side, or they were repanted on the right side of the La-7 at the VDNCh exhibition, dated also on 1945.

Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #159 on: June 23, 2017, 08:33:19 PM »

Hi Misos,
this photos has spots of shadow from the trees, I am not sure that it was camouflaged. I wonder if it was polished. Anyway i think to see the change in shade under the strut of the windshield.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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Posts: 1474

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #160 on: June 24, 2017, 05:17:15 AM »

Hi Massimo,

this photo is form my "Reply 135" of this thread:

That plane is seems to be camouflaged - note dark area under the number 27, border between AMT-11 and AMT-12 is in the middle of the digit "2" - exactly there where one would expected it.

Although AMT-12 beneath the cockpit seems to be only under the victory starlets, not of the standard size and shape.
Comparte Kozhedub's La-7:

with this La-7:


All that points at at least partial repainting, look here http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/board/index.php?topic=2021.msg16621#msg16621

Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #161 on: June 24, 2017, 11:19:02 AM »

Hi Misos,
I agree that there are traces of camouflage. I wonder why the contrast is so reduced although being the general shade of the plane quite dark. Perhaps the blue-grey was more fresh than the dark grey due to repaintings?
Regards
Massimo
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Flavio
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Posts: 42


« Reply #162 on: November 16, 2017, 11:23:13 PM »

A further shot of Kozhedub's La-7 "27" from Mansur Mustafin website on Facebook

Flavio

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10210406142526742&set=a.1103386341724.2016169.1138695823&type=3&theater

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #163 on: November 17, 2017, 09:33:44 AM »

Hi Flavio,
thank you for sharing this photo.
It is fully clear that the plane was widely repainted after the famous photo of Kozhedub aside it.
Now I have to revise my profile, making a different one for the spring 1945 when still at the unit, camouflaged and with red spinner.
I wonder if it is really the same plane, or a clone to match it. The shape of the digits suggests Z.381, but the plane preserved in Monino is built in Z.21.
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #164 on: November 17, 2017, 12:25:20 PM »

Hi,
looking at photos of spring 1945,  now I don't think that the plane was repainted between the sessions.



Now it seems clear that the contrast of the painting was already lost when the photos of the spring were shot.
It is not clear if the plane was repainted with solid grey uppersurfaces when in the unit, maybe just before marking it with starlets and medals, or if the contrast of the camouflage was lost due to weathering.
I see that the surface is not fully matt, so I think that a total repainting before the victory marks is the most likely idea.
Any ideas?
Regards
Massimo
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