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Yak-7b or Yak-9 of Mikhail Semyonovich Mazan, 85 GvIAP
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Author Topic: Yak-7b or Yak-9 of Mikhail Semyonovich Mazan, 85 GvIAP  (Read 15506 times)
dancho
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« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2015, 09:49:33 PM »

The Flying Crocodiles....has a certain ring to it.
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learstang
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« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2015, 10:05:07 PM »

Looking at my old Cooperitiva model of the La-5 (the aircraft that was [wrongly?] attributed to the ace Kostylev), the markings do look like a crocodile. Interesting - I always thought it was a shark.

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon
Kalish-Nikov
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« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2015, 10:14:52 PM »

I don't think it matters if one characterizes the nose art as being "shark-mouthed" or "crocodile-mouthed" - as long as it looks intimidating to your foe, amirite?  Wink
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KL
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« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2015, 12:10:16 AM »

I don't think it matters if one characterizes the nose art as being "shark-mouthed" or "crocodile-mouthed" - as long as it looks intimidating to your foe, amirite?  Wink

IMHO, things should be called for what they are...  it's about historical accuracy, historical authenticity or "historicity"?

Yaks flown by Mazan and Barsht didn't have a shark mouth drawing on them and "shark-mouthed" phrase shouldn't be used to describe them.

Looking at my old Cooperitiva model of the La-5 (the aircraft that was [wrongly?] attributed to the ace Kostylev), the markings do look like a crocodile. Interesting - I always thought it was a shark.

I don't know...  Undecided  Drawing is highly stylized, most likely it originally had oval teeth and its eyes are not where they should be to represent a crock...

In general, sharks have their eyes above "front teeth"



That is why "shark-mouthed" planes usually have eyes positioned just behind the spinner











Shark with eyes moved forward looks more agressive



eyes midway along the mouth are also common:





but eyes behind the mouth are atypical and usually mean a different animal...





So, Mazan's and Barsht's Yaks are definitively crockodiles.  Kostiliev's La-5 is probably a different animal...

Cheers,
KL
 
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 06:42:31 AM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2015, 06:42:45 AM »

Quote
Regardless of the gills or what you think, other pilots in Mazan's regiment saw this drawing as a crocodile mouth.
Interesting. I would know what the painter thought of it. Perhaps he thinks that crocodiles are fishes.
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TISO
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« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2015, 01:28:19 PM »

Just my two cents. From the equsuite detail of the eyes painted on the plane in last pic (the one in front of white 70)) i'd say neither shark or crokodile but rather wolf mouth. A big toothed apex predator most soviet pilots would be familiar with. A ferocious hunter that hunts its pray alone or in packs (IMHO a rather good description of fighter pilots).
It could also be that art evolved from shark/crokodile to wolf or a new plane with new mouth....
Now we need to establish the number so decal manufacturers can proceed to make decals for our models (preferably in "one true scale")
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 01:37:32 PM by TISO » Logged

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KL
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« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2015, 11:51:00 PM »

Let me try to summarize information about the two extremely rare Yak-9s decorated with jaws drawings:

1.  Yak-9 flown by Mihail Semyonovich Mazan.





This Yak-9 belonged to 85 giap.  During 1944 85 giap and its parent 6 giad moved several times from front to front: From Dec 1943 to Feb 1944 it was on 4th Ukrainian Front on Dnepr river.  Then it participated in the Liberation of Crimea in April-May 1944. In July-August it was transferred to 1st Ukranian Front and participated in Lvov-Sandomir Operation.  In October 1944 it was sent back on the 2nd Ukrainin Front in Hungary.  85 giap finished the war fighting in Austria and Czechoslovakia.

In Sept 1944 85 giap was rearmed with new Yak-3s,  Mihail Mazan was killed in action in December 1944 while 85 giap fought in Hungary.  So, the photo above was probably taken in spring or summer 1944, before the regiment had been rearmed with Yak-3s.

In post war memoirs by D. Panov, Mazan's Yak-9 was described as a "huge crocodile with its mouth wide open and with white teeth, yellow eyes and splayed legs with white claws" 


2.  Yak-9 flown by Abrek Arkadevich Barsht.  Barsht was a distinguished recce pilot (technically not an ace since he ended war with 4 victories (newer research shows only 2 personal victories) awarded with HSU red star in 1945. 



Barsht flew with 118 okrap.  From April 1944 to May 1945 118 okrap fought on 1st Ukranian Front, within the 2nd Air Army in Western Ukraine, south Poland and in Germany during the advance to Berlin.

According to A. Stankov, sometimes at the end of 1944 (Nov-Dec 1944???)  Barsht received Yak-9 with tactical number "13" and while flying this plane he scored a victory over a Fw-190D9 south of Lvov.  According to A. Stankov, Barsht's Yak-9 No "13" looked something like this:



Stankov's profile is obviously derived from the following photo:



judging by heavy coats, winter 1944-45 is the correct date for the time when this photo was taken.

Following two photos almost certainly also show Barsht and his Yak-9 (definitively not Mazan and his Yak).





Jaw drawing is now outlined with thick white line and eyes are added.  Judging by uniforms photos were taken in spring or summer 1945.

HTH,
KL
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2015, 03:32:48 AM »

Hhi Konstantin

regarding Barsht and the Yak(s)  The winter shot looks to be a different set of teeth, much smaller, closer together.

So unless you completely repainted it, then perhaps  the later photos show a different plane?

Is there are reason for the Tactical number to shown as blue, or this more artistic license?
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KL
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« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2015, 07:03:30 AM »

...  The winter shot looks to be a different set of teeth, much smaller, closer together.

So unless you completely repainted it, then perhaps  the later photos show a different plane?

IMHO, it is the same plane and the same drawing that was modified sometimes in early 1945.

in the winter photo the hight of the mouth is roughly the same as the length of the second exhaust stub just aboveSpace between the teeth (just under the second exhaust stub) is roughly one tooth... 



Same here on 1945 photo:



This photo definitively shows Barsht, unfortunately the nose of the plane is retouched



but, hight of the mouth is roughly the same as the length of the second exhaust stub just above it and space between the teeth (just under the second exhaust stub) is roughly one tooth...
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2015, 04:57:49 PM »

One could try to count the teeth corresponding to the length of the first long exhaust pipe. I think to count 4 or more teeth on the first photo, 3 or few more on the third image.
Besides the distance between teeth and exhausts, if compared with the tubes, seems wider on the first image than on the third one.
This doesn't mean necessarily that it was another plane, but the painting doesn't seem an evolution of the same.
Regards
Massimo
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