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Author Topic: P-39 A.F. Klubov  (Read 13455 times)
66misos
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« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2015, 04:32:48 PM »

Hi,
here is summary of photos showing board number "125" and tail:


I have a feeling that the red number without white outline (no outline is visible on the photo) a bit disappears on the OD background:


So for comparision here is an alternative with the glossy silver board number:


and the alternative with the light blue AMT-7 board number:


Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 08:34:48 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2015, 06:25:10 PM »

Hi Misos, I don't know... it disappears on your color drawing, but the shade on the photos is the same of the red star, on both photos although they render the red star in different ways.
I would suggest to use more saturate red.
Of course, blue and silver are possibilties.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2015, 07:00:23 PM »

Hi Massimo,
I also do not know. I originally thought this will be easy and fast project... Ha-ha.
Anyway, here are color photos of I-16 in AII Green, which is surely darker than weathered OD:





The little red details are visible so-so without white outline. And red over brownish weathered OD is even less contrasting. Huh
Regards,
  66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2015, 06:44:10 AM »

Hi Misos,
you haven't to refer to the impression given by color images. Anything that can be said oif the shade of the number, it can be said of the shade of the red star on the same photo.
Besides, the outline of the star seems overposed to the 1 of 125. My impression is that both rhe number and the star have to be a bit larger, the top of the star looks very high on the fuselage, and its upper curvature should be visible on the profile.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2015, 07:36:20 PM »

Hi Massimo,
IMHO size of the number "125" is OK - note the lines around it - the doors to radio compartment - vertical line is to the right, e.g. digit "5" is inside the doors and horizontal line is going through the upper part of the digits. Lower part of the digits is somewhere around the door hinges.
Regarding red star - you are right, it should be bigger and it probably should go over digit "1".
I do not want endlesly speculate. Based on photos we currently have I vote for the red number, the red paint was widely available. I did not see any silver decoration / marking on the aircraft from the 16 giap.
And IMHO, the blue color is even less probably - no evidence of using blue color for board numbers in VVS at all, except that "crocodile-mouth" Yak painting.
Thanks for comments.
Regards,
    66misos


EDIT:
While looking for info about Kozhedub I just found this BINGO photo in Czech magazine Plastic Kit Revue no.4 from year 1991:

with description: Technician serving Klubov's P-39N from 16 giap, year 1944.

Interesting facts:
- there is 49 victory stars, the last one, the 50th one from August 25, 1944 is missing,
- there is red star with white outline on the upperwing,
- it should be N-version. And yes, the small vent on the front bottom fuselage between propeller and spinner is missing, see green elipse on the photo bellow:


so this profile should be correct:
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 08:23:14 PM by 66misos » Logged

66misos
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« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2015, 02:51:30 PM »

Hi,
thanks to Messoed from airforce.ru forum we have additional data about Cobra P-39Q-15 "125" - it came to the 16 giap on March 21, 1944 and was lost on April 16, 1945, then already flown by Petr Tabachenko.
Regards,
  66misos
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66misos
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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2015, 03:36:27 PM »

Hi,
seems no additional substantial info will appear, so following profiles could be considered as finished:

1.) Klubov's P-39N-1 "45" s/n 42-9434 cuold be produced sometime about February 1943, when white star in the blue disc was standard USAAF insignia. Here on this photo we can see darker disk under the star:





USAAF modified national insignias - white rectangle/bar was added on each side of the blue circle with a red outline surrounding the entire insignia on June 29, 1943. Approximately month latter, on August 14, 1943 the red outline was replaced by blue one.
So all Cobras produced after August 14, 1943 should have either new standard USAAF insignias with white bar on sides or Bell "transport" insignia, e.g. white circle with red star inside. Not only blue disc with.

2.) Klubov's P-39Q-15 "125" number 44-2589 could be produced sometime around December 1943, e.g. long enough after August.
This photos show darker disc under the star, e.g. IMHO it is white disc repainted to green one.




regards,
   66misos




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KL
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« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2015, 03:47:15 AM »

Hi Misos,
If you have positively established that Airacobra No "45" was actually a P-39N and had 50 victory markings - why do you still have victory markings on No "125"?   Huh

In my opinion, if Klubov's plane had any victory markings in June 1944 (at the time when he was photographed for "Krasnaya Zvezda" and "Ogonek" magazines), he would have been photographed with his own plane.  IMHO, since his plane hasn't been marked, he was photographed by "other's planes"...

So, markings probably appeared later in July or in August, most likely just before Lwow-Sandomir operation (August 1944).


Also, red for number "125" looks quite unlikely  Undecided  If it was 1941, yes red was common.  But in 1944, only white or silver...

Regards,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2015, 06:49:06 AM »

Hi Misos,
I think that the disk under the star of 145, green or blue, should be visibly darker than the OD background.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2015, 10:24:44 AM »

Hi,
thank for your comments.
Hi Misos...why do you still have victory markings on No "125"?
In my opinion, if Klubov's plane had any victory markings in June 1944 (at the time when he was photographed for "Krasnaya Zvezda" and "Ogonek" magazines), he would have been photographed with his own plane.  IMHO, since his plane hasn't been marked, he was photographed by "other's planes"...
So, markings probably appeared later in July or in August, most likely just before Lwow-Sandomir operation (August 1944).
Also, red for number "125" looks quite unlikely  Undecided  If it was 1941, yes red was common.  But in 1944, only white or silver...

KL, good point, you are probably right. That is why I already wrote:
...I am not sure about serial/board number vs. number of victory starlets...

...possible appearance from June 1944 with 19 shared and 26 individual victories and red board number "125":

I checked again all pictures and yes, on all pictures where Klubov has HSU Gold medal and Lenin Order with the banner, there is some Cobra without visible victory stars:








So it would be probably better to remove victory stars from the profile of "125".

Regarding the color of number "125", well, I really do not know. But when I see decreased picture of Cobra with "125" and I try to imagine it in the (fast) movement, then red "125" is much less recognizable than silver "125".
So silver "125" would be the final option. Huh

Hi Massimo,
I made that circle a bit darker green.



Regards,
   66misos
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Flavio
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« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2015, 12:27:47 PM »

Very well done work 66misos,

thak you for sharing.

Flavio
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KL
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« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2015, 06:14:21 PM »

Massimo,
A lot of new information and analysis about Klubov's Airacobra have been posted here in last few days.  IMHO, it would be nice and useful to separate posts starting from the post # 146 separate thread called "Klubov's Airacobras" or something like that.  This will make search easier, if nothing else.
Regards,
KL
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66misos
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« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2015, 06:22:05 PM »

Hi Massimo,
Move, please, posts about Klubov from VVS Cobras into this thread as proposed  by KL.
Thank you.
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2015, 07:11:01 AM »

Hi,
it's done.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2015, 02:15:11 PM »

Hi Massimo,
many thanks.
Regards,
   66misos


EDIT:
He are photos of Klubov's La-7 s/n: 38100554 (Tabachenko, p.413) after the accident and subsequent death of Klubov in November 1944:




and the decal sheet in 1/72 with Klubov's La-7 made by Igor Zlobin at http://fighters.front.ru/str/mod.htm
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 09:32:44 PM by 66misos » Logged

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