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Author Topic: La-7 Pokryshkin 16 giap  (Read 2589 times)
66misos
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« on: June 04, 2015, 04:49:03 PM »

Hi,
On October 7, 1944 four La-7 were given to 9 giad. They all had inscription "For Alexander Pokryshkin from workers of Novosibirsk". One for Division HQT and three went to 16 giap -  serial numbers 38100154, 38100554 and 38100854 (Tabachenko, p.526).
There was intention to rearm 16 giad from american Cobras to Soviet Lavochkins.




So trainings have started and at begining of November 1944 Klubov died in the accident in one of those La-7:




Pokryshkin refused to ream. Officially he did not want "to change the horse in the middle of the road". Pilots and technicians were mastered in flying and mantening Cobras. He did not want them to start learning all from beginning. Unofficially the death of Klubov was (one of) the reason.

Igor Zlobin from www.fighters.front.ru made the profile and decal of this La-7:

Description says that incription was at the beginning in white color and only on the left side. Profile shows the plane how it looked on Nov 1, 1944 when Klubov died in it.

Hi Misos, thank you very much for these images.
I think that this plane had red spinner and ring, as written into the text, and white-red tips of the propeller (the white line on it doesn't correspond to a bend line).
It seems the type with the shutters on the intakes, I think to see a darker zone corresponding to the grid in front of the landing gear bay.
The wide stars seem those of Z.381.
I wonder the reason of the irregularities of the shades  on the number, it looks made by stencil (normal, in factory) and then retouched with a darker shade on the junctions only. That is unusual.
Regards
Massimo

I posted a question at airforce.ru forum about the info from MBI book Lavochkin La-7 by Milos Vestsik, where he writes that those donated Lavochkins had red noses.

Mr. Vestsik posted his answer with following pictures:
Here are four photos from donation of la-7 to Pokryshkin.

Spread 4 pictures from the transfer of La 7 Pokryshkin.
Always refers to eskadrile La-7. There is always mentioned escadrile of La-7.
One photo shows Pokryshkin standing by La-7 with the board number starting with the digit "1", so board number is probably "10".
I think that all should be documented in the 16 GIAP materials, all La-7 with numbers, at least in the accident report of Klubov's "40".
Regarding the red noses, that info origins from me. I thought so at one time based on the photo of bad quality published in Krasnaja Zvezda (Red Star) magazine on September 22, 1944, showing Pokryshkin on the podium.








One note - there cannot be "40" at La-7 with s/n: 38100554.
It is well known that La-7 plant - Zavod 381 - had number 381 before number of series.
It means machines are from the series 54 with the board numbers 01, 05, 08 and my guess 09 and 10 (logical numbering and maybe some breaks, if the numbers are not given by "finger in the air").

Regards,
  66misos
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 05:22:09 PM by 66misos » Logged

66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2015, 08:41:30 PM »

Hi,
update from http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/forum/0/co/164692.htm
Confirmation by Igor Zlobin that decals are correct - number "40" is taken from Accident report. Profil drawn according to the 3 photos from the same report.
Note two versions of the inscription - originally white, only on the left side of the fuselage. At the time of the "40" accident the inscription was already updated - red with white outline.

Alex posted interesting photo:

- Inscription seem to be still white,
- La-7 and reflector in the wing (?)
- no red painting is visible on the engine cowling (although the nose is not visible at all).
Regards,
  66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2015, 10:36:01 PM »

Hi Misos,
thank you for your very noticeable research, and to Igor Zlobin. I'm impressed for the amount of images emerged.
There are still some doubts. One, that you have pointed, is the apparent unconsistence between the factory numbers and the numbers 40 and 1x visible on photos. Maybe there was not a connection between s/n and bort number for planes produced in this factory?
Anyway the number 40 is sure beyond any doubt.

The second thing is about the red nose.

here we can't see a bemarcation line between dark grey and light blue where expected. We see, instead, the dark reflection of the wing on the cowing, including the sides. The cowling itself had toi be glossy. But all the images show that grey surfaces were matt.


This one gives the idea that the lower part of the cowling was light blue. But we can see that the stars under the wings are not visible, probably because they were glossy and reflect the sky, and are undistinguishable from light blue undersurfaces.
The same can be said of the lower part of the cowling. So, this photo doesn't exclude that it was red.


This photo shows clearly the reflection of the cowling sides. Glossy red looks likely.



This image gives the idea of a light blue undersurface, but is it so? Looking carefully, we see the reflection of the wing (dark), the snowy ground, the trees layer and the sky over it, So, can't it be that the relatively sharp light part under the cowling seems light only because is reflecting the snow on the ground under the plane?

My idea is that the nose is glossy red. Red ring and spinner was so common for La-7 to have been nearly a standard (from factory?). In this case, all the cowling cam be red.
Besides, the downed plane seems to show red-white blade tips, or at least a white band.
No red cap on the tail.

Besides, the reversed plane seems to have had silver number and outline of the stars.  The use of silver could justify both the shining on the photo, both the unusual visibility of retouches made to hide the interruptions of the numbers made by stencil.
Or, alternatively: could it be that the plane is wet because of rain?

Regards
Massimo

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66misos
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2015, 10:26:28 AM »

Hi Massimo,
IMHO there are no such reflections on the cowling, it had to be almost chrome-like surface. Plus there are not sharp shadows like on bright sunny day. IMHO it is matter of the quality of the photo.

Anyhow, that aircraft is interesting also fron the other view:

- metal band/plate is missing (yellow arrow),
- aerodynamic cover is missing (red arrow),
- there is reflector in the La-7 wing (?) (blue arrow)

The digits "40" looks really strange:


Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 10:47:22 AM by 66misos » Logged

warhawk
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2015, 11:19:06 AM »

The digits "40" looks really strange:

I agree, almost looks hand-drawn, without any aid.
Or it could be due to quality of the photo developing and/or later printing process?

Aleksandar
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2015, 02:51:47 PM »

Hi Misos, hi Aleksandar,


the reflections are there, I've enhanced darkness on part of the cowling and the small dark blotches correspond exactly to the reflection of the wheels, as the dark lines are the reflectionof the shadows under the wings. The horizon is reflected on the spinner in a relatively sharp way.
Well, of course the glossy finish of the nose is not a sure demonstration that it was red.
Could you obtain a detailed scan of the detail between the wing and the landing gear actuator of the following image? It seems a detail of the nose, perhaps it will show a demarcation line, or not.

Well, numbers are made in factory, and have one style for each factory.  If they were made by stencil, some interruption is necessary to sustain the  inner part of 0 and of 4, but usually it is not visible. Probably they retouched them by brush.
Now, the darker lines that we see on the photo of 40 have to be exactly where the interruptions for masks had to be.  Probably they were retouched badly. If you use silver paint, retouches by brush are very visible. So my idea is that they used silver paint, out of usual standard of La-7s.
As an alternative: the number was darkened for stains, and they made only a partial repainting using masks as those of the factory to spray white paint.
Quote
Anyhow, that aircraft is interesting also fron the other view:
yes, it looks modified as La-5s of PVO, and somewhat out of order. The photo shows also the grid for intakes, differently from the plane in Prague, and the lack of a small hole close to the intake.
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 02:59:37 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
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