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Author Topic: Yak-7 UTI camouflage  (Read 1924 times)
Seawinder
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« on: November 11, 2016, 07:54:36 AM »

I'm thinking about starting a three-way build project of an ICM Yak-7 UTI and Yak-7B, and a Modelsvit Yak-9. I'm wondering about the upper surface color(s) for the UTI. The ICM kit, in its only makings option, calls for overall green. If this is correct, would it more likely have been AII-3 or AMT-4? On the other hand, is there any reason not to suppose that at least some UTIs were painted in the typical AMT-4/AMT-6 scheme? Finally, are there any period photos of UTIs floating about?

Thanks,
Pip
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Dark Green Man
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2016, 07:34:16 AM »

I believe the AMT-4/7 scheme was adopted later...1943? maybe even later???
early ones had a two-tone scheme of AII green/AII black with AII blue bottoms.
and don't mistake that green for Zaschitniya (protective) it's not the same thing.
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"when we lose the right to be different, we lose the priviledge to be free"--Charles Evans Hughes
Seawinder
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2016, 08:44:36 PM »

I believe the AMT-4/7 scheme was adopted later...1943? maybe even later???
early ones had a two-tone scheme of AII green/AII black with AII blue bottoms.
and don't mistake that green for Zaschitniya (protective) it's not the same thing.

Hi DGM. Are you talking just about the UTI or in general? According to Massimo's Evolution of Paint page, the AMT-4/7/6 scheme was in use on fighters as early as late 1941. What I'm mainly wondering is how likely it would have been for a plane to be painted in overall AMT-4 over AMT-6. I'm thinking it was more likely to have been AII Green and A-19f Green over AII Blue, similar to MiG-3s.

I'd be interested in examples of AII schemes with added black disruptive patterns. I thought, for example, that theory had been debunked at least for the MiG-3.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2016, 09:39:05 PM »

Hi Pip.
AII green is a paint for planes built immediately before the war. Yak-7s were built in 1942, so its use is unlikely.
If the paint was uniform green, AMT-4 is nearly sure.
My main doubt is that the real plane could have been camouflaged, but the photo doesn't show this clearly. It would be good to look for the reference photo that they utilized for the instructions sheet. Could you show the painting instructions, please?
Regards
Massimo
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Seawinder
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2016, 05:18:59 AM »

Hi Pip.
AII green is a paint for planes built immediately before the war. Yak-7s were built in 1942, so its use is unlikely.
If the paint was uniform green, AMT-4 is nearly sure.
My main doubt is that the real plane could have been camouflaged, but the photo doesn't show this clearly. It would be good to look for the reference photo that they utilized for the instructions sheet. Could you show the painting instructions, please?
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo. There is no indication of what ICM used as reference(s) for their UTI kit. The painting instructions identify the plane as Kutaisi fighter school, Georgia, Soviet Union, 1942, in which case I agree that AMT-4 is more likely than AII Green. On the other hand, the majority of Yak-7UTIs were produced in 1941, the earliest in May of that year, so it would seem quite possible that some were painted in AII paints, don't you think?
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2016, 07:23:34 AM »

Hi Pip,
as a temporal range, it is possible. I don't remember to have seen photos of Yak-7 UTI in early overall green, even the prototype was camouflaged.
If it was the prewar livery, it should have red stars over the wings.
Have you already looked for photos?
Regards
Massimo
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Seawinder
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2016, 04:10:05 PM »

Hi Massimo.
Good point about the wing stars. The ICM instructions have the upper wings without them. No, I've never seen a photo of a Yak-7UTI in overall green, but then, I've found precious few period photos of the type at all -- they seem to be as rare as hen's teeth. I wonder if ICM simply got it wrong, and the plane should have the normal AMT-4/6 application. On the other hand, the markings are extremely minimal -- just the stars and a small white number -- so one could certainly do a conjectural model using a similar but different number. Also, I'm waiting to receive Begemot's new Yak-7 sheet. It looks quite extensive, so perhaps it will include one or more UTI schemes which would presumably be well researched.

I still would like to know where there were a significant number of planes of any type painted in overall AMT-4 topsides.
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Dark Green Man
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2016, 10:28:30 PM »

probably the easiest thing to do with the Yak-7UTI is to do the overall glossy white scheme.
and this winter machine did use the wheels - although you could use the skis if you want something different.
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"when we lose the right to be different, we lose the priviledge to be free"--Charles Evans Hughes
Seawinder
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2016, 01:56:24 AM »

probably the easiest thing to do with the Yak-7UTI is to do the overall glossy white scheme.
and this winter machine did use the wheels - although you could use the skis if you want something different.


Thanks, but I want to do it in summer colors. I'll probably go ahead and apply "normal" AMT-4/7 over 6 scheme. I'm not too worried about trying to replicate an actual, documented example since photos are so few and far between.
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KL
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2016, 10:01:23 PM »

Hi Pip,
It looks that you are safer with a camouflaged model.
At least in two sources black-green camouflage scheme has been mentioned: at http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/yak7uti.html

Quote
Як-7УТИ, как и боевые самолеты ВВС, камуфлировались сверху и с боков черной краской по основному зеленому фону, а снизу голубой эмалевой краской.

Kuznietsov in his last Yak-7 book  also mentions that all Yak-7UTI were camouflaged same as the prototype (although this is unlikely for planes made before June 22).

This photo allegedly represents Yak-7UTI:



Cheers,
KL
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Seawinder
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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2016, 11:49:49 PM »

Hi Konstantin. Glad to get your input. I will definitely go with green/black camouflage. Thanks!
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