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Author Topic: La-7 S.F. Dolgushin  (Read 4965 times)
66misos
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« on: June 11, 2015, 11:47:30 PM »

Hi,



I found this info about Golgushin's La-7 at scalemodels.ru:
Since September 1944 the regiment commander had flown in a aircraft with the number "93" with installed the most powerfull engine from available engines based on the results of bench tests. All original paint was removed, aircraft was again primed, painted and polished. The fuselage, upper wings and horizontal stabilizers on top were not camouflaged, but had only light blue-grey (AMT-11) paint and the bottom was in light blue (AMT-7).
Red engine cowling and spinner were introduced by Lieutenant-General A.S. Osipenko in July 1944 before the Bobruisk Operation as the recogniotion marks of the Air Corps. At the same time identification marks of the regiments were accepted. For the 156 iap they were alternating horizontal stripes on the tail fin and rudder - three red and three white.
Red stars with thewhite outline on the standard positions. Number "93" - white with no border. Golden Star on the engine cowling. Under the cabin - 17 red and 11 white starlets (the number of his official personal and group victories at the end of the war). Yellow letter "E" on the tail - the honorary name of the 156th Regiment "Elbingsky."
Technical labels/stencils on the machine were not restored, on the right side there was only white number "93". Belts tightening engine cowling - unpainted steel.


However, here at http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Modeling/Lavochkin/La-7/Eduard/FullBuild/Bittner/index.php is slightly different interpretation of the photo above:


Regards,
   66misos
 
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KL
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2015, 03:47:35 AM »


I found this info about Golgushin's La-7 at scalemodels.ru:



This information is from "Mir Aviatsiyi" magazine No 1-1992. The author is V. Vahlamov, famous (with Orlov) for the M-Hobby series of texts about VVS camouflage and colours.



Photo above has been dated, people on the photo have been identified:



Ла-7 командира 156 иап Героя Советского Союза подполковника С.Ф.Долгушина. Слева направо: механик самолета старшина Кисляков А.Е., инженер полка майор Баюков В.Д., подполковник Долгушин С.Ф., начальник штаба подполковник Клещев А.Е., техник звена управления Щипанов А.В.. Аэродром Клюцов, 25 апреля 1945 г.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2015, 08:05:59 AM »

Hi Misos,
thank you for posting these interesting informations.
I see that the letter on the tail has been interpreted as a yellow 3 on the MBI book and on the profile you have posted.
I've a perplexity observing the rudder. I think to see a white elevator in raised position, and that the lower red stripe is not as wide as the first ones, but very thin and under the elevator.
Another interesting characteristic seems to be that the red star on the tail is very small, and there is a white space between his outer red outline and the red band.
Besides I see that both models have a star inclined downwards, while the profile has a straight one. It shouldn't be difficult to complete the star behind people to see  how it is really.



Quote
Ла-7 командира 156 иап Героя Советского Союза подполковника С.Ф.Долгушина. Слева направо: механик самолета старшина Кисляков А.Е., инженер полка майор Баюков В.Д., подполковник Долгушин С.Ф., начальник штаба подполковник Клещев А.Е., техник звена управления Щипанов А.В.. Аэродром Клюцов, 25 апреля 1945 г.
Konstantin, I've already written this before: this forum is in English, so please don't post texts in Russian without translation if it's not necessary or beyond one's capabilities.

Regards
Massimo

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2015, 11:48:01 AM »

Hi, I've just received a mail on this topic by Alex Ruchkovsky.
He made me note how strange is the 3 of 93. He suggests that it could be a 5 modified into a 3. 
Imho, it is fully repainted:it doesn't use the rounded font of the 9, from the factory, and appears rather angular on its lower part, while we can suppose that the bottom of the 9 is rounded as its top.
At first I was in doubt that what I see on profiles was an E (Cyrillic alphabet shows three different characters related to western E), but Alex made me clear that :
Quote
... yellow cylillic E (Э) on the fin as the first letter of the regiment's honor name "Elbingskiy", related to the town of Elbing in East Prussia, now Elblong in Poland...
Another interesting thing: he was told by Bykov that the emblem of 156 IAP were only two red stripes, not three.
Again, what I think to see on this photo are two thick red lines above the stabilizators, and one thin below the elevator, on the rudder only.
I wonder if the La-7 logo was preserved on the nose, aside the medal, as it was preserved on the rudder.
Alex hasn't further images of tails of this unit.
Some photos of similar planes of 156 IAP can be found here, http://www.soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/zh/zelynkin.htm, but aren't decisive. Strangely, here Bykov has drawn a profile with 3 red stripes.
Regards
Massimo

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66misos
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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2015, 03:11:12 PM »

Hi,
according to the scalemodels.ru post original paint was removed from that La-7 and it was primed, painted and polished again. No stencils were restored. So also red stars and board number was painted in the regiment. This could explain non-standard size of the red stars, non-standard (thick) white (silver?) outline of the red stars and board number without any outline:

I played a bit with the photo above and I added there the red stars and the black line between the tail and rudder.
There are really only two wide red stripes on the tail.
I do not know what is that third one on the bottom - whether thin red stripe or the bottom part of the horizontal stabilizer in the shadow.

Upper (polished) side of the horizontal stabilizer is very bright - either reflects surrounding light and/or white color from the tail, or it could be white? However, plane "57" on the photo bellow from the same regiment has horizontal stabilizer in original grey colors.


Western (Latin) "E" is in Cyrillic either "Э" or "E"
Western (Latin) "Z" is in Cyrillic "З", like our digit 3
According to the http://www.allaces.ru/cgi-bin/s2.cgi/sssr/struct/p/iap156.dat its full name was "156-й истребительный Эльбингский ордена Суворова авиационный полк" e.g. "156th Elbingskij Air Fighter Regiment of the Suvorov Order".
So if the photo does not clearly show something else, I would rather paint there yellow "Э" or mirrored "E" on the tail, but not "З".




156 iap, 1944


Sr. Leutenant Trusov, 156 iap, 1944

Regards,
  66misos
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 03:23:09 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2015, 04:11:05 PM »

Hi Misos,
do you think that the interpretation of the cyrillic E on existing profiles, similar to an angular 3, is wrong?
I see that plane 57 hasn't white elevators, but the plane of the commander of the regiment could be special.
I'm fairly sure that the dark line isn't the shadow of the elevator. Eventually, on next days, I'll draw on the photo what I think to see on it (now the beach is calling me).
The photos of the plane of Trusov are particularly interesting. The detail of the factory mark is the closer I have. Isn't there any source about the bort number of his plane?
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2015, 05:12:20 PM »

Hi Massimo,

Quote
do you think that the interpretation of the cyrillic E on existing profiles, similar to an angular 3, is wrong?
IMHO yes. Why should they painted there letter looking exactly like "Z" when they meant "E"?

Quote
I see that plane 57 hasn't white elevators, but the plane of the commander of the regiment could be special.

Could be. But also thin red stripe could be that "something special" for commander' plane.

Quote
The photos of the plane of Trusov are particularly interesting. The detail of the factory mark is the closer I have. Isn't there any source about the bort number of his plane?
I did not find any other photo of Trusov's La-7.

I have found a brief discussion between M.Bykov and other members at airforce.ru forum from 2008:
8 iak introduced following fast recognition elements for its regiments: Lavochkins in 263 iap had white tail, in 156 iap they had white tail with red top and two red stripes while the bottom red stripe was only on rudder and Lavochkins in 813 iap had white band around the fuselage under the fuselage red star.
At that time there was not known photo showing whole La-7 from 156 iap. Seems that 3 same wide red stripes and letter "E" are not confirmed by photography.

Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 05:59:46 PM by 66misos » Logged

66misos
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2015, 12:15:21 PM »

Hi Massimo,
IMHO there are really 2 same wide stripes and same wide red "cap":

The bottom stripe is only partially hidden by paraschute bag and horizontal stabilizer in position Up, like on this picture:


Here http://www.telenir.net/transport_i_aviacija/mir_aviacii_1992_01/p7.php is full article about Dolgushin by Vakhlamov posted in "Mir Aviatsiyi" magazine No 1-1992 in Russian language.
He writes that yellow "Э" was on the tail. So it would be probably better to paint the right vertical line as one straight line, not two curves like on digit "3".

At the end of article Vakhlamov thanks to Dolgushin and Shchipanov (former technician, the guy on the colored photo above) for providing photos and documents from their private archives and to collective of the Secondary school No.625 for possibility to study materials from Museum of war glory of 8 iak. So Vakhlamov's article is built on really strong basis.
Regards,
   Misos

« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 12:18:42 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2015, 06:11:51 PM »

Hi Misos,
I see, it's possible that the  elevator covers the upper part of the lower stripe. The tip of the elevator goes under the level of the stabilizator and can explain the profile we see on the photo of n.93.
Interestingly, one of the planes shows victory marks on the right side, I wonder if this could be the case of 93 too.
The photo of the plane of Dolgushin seems to show a small 2 on the rudder, correspondingly to the supposed E. It looks parallel to the flight axis, not a trace of a number written on the back.

Quote
I have found a brief discussion between M.Bykov and other members at airforce.ru forum from 2008:
8 iak introduced following fast recognition elements for its regiments: Lavochkins in 263 iap had white tail, in 156 iap they had white tail with red top and two red stripes while the bottom red stripe was only on rudder and Lavochkins in 813 iap had white band around the fuselage under the fuselage red star.
At that time there was not known photo showing whole La-7 from 156 iap. Seems that 3 same wide red stripes and letter "E" are not confirmed by photography.
A red cap and two red stripes, of which the lower one only on the rudder... coherent with the images.
An interesting thing is the bomb rack under the wings of one of the planes. It's likely that 93 had this characteristic too.

Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2017, 08:26:42 PM »

Hi all,
I have uploaded a page on La-7s of 156 iap at
mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/la-7/la-7colors/156iap/156iap.htm.
Substantially, it takes informations from this topic.
Please, let me know your suggestions.
Regards
Massimo
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