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Author Topic: P-39 Red-nose Cobras from 129 giap  (Read 6846 times)
66misos
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2015, 10:08:03 PM »

Hi AaCee,
I agree with the late Cobras. I think that if Bell factory was in time, they painted white discs with red stars. But if they were in some stress or there was presure to ship more Cobras, they took Cobras with already painted USAF insignias and still in USA (in the factory?) they repainted it with original OD and NG to Bell export standards, e.g. no insignias on the upperwings and two star on the underwings:






And after the transit white discs were repainted green locally in SU.
Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 07:32:47 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2015, 07:41:31 AM »

Hi Misos,


this resembles a lot. I wonder why, because I don't see discontinuities in the curvature of the fuselage.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2015, 09:53:51 AM »

Hi Massimo,
IMHO that darker area is not caused (only) by curvature of the fuselage, but also by grease and/or oil leakage from the gun compartmen through panel lines.

USAF marking repainted by original US paints OD and NG, originally white plate on the sides of the front fuselage repainted in 129 giap by VVS paints - green AMT-4 or 4BO or...
Serial number and soldiers nicely censored:


Well, this should be the final picture:


Regards,
   66misos

« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 09:19:24 AM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2015, 10:18:24 PM »

Hi Misos,
I can't believe!
who has censored the photo, and why?
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2015, 02:16:36 AM »


I have seen the Hyryl? (earlier Tikkakoski) Airacobra also before the restoration and for my eyes it looks like the US bars were overpainted with US paints in the States and the white discs with Soviet greens on the upper surfaces and fuselage sides. Upper surfaces overpainting colour has always looked a bit strange for me. Myself I don't buy the US insignia Blue on these discs.


Thanks AaCee, what you are saying about the Hyryl? Airacobra confirms our conslusion about the 1944 "transit markings".  I also doubt that earlier, 1943 VVS Airacobras had blue disks - those blue disks were overpainted  in OD/NG by the Americans (in Abadan, Great Falls, Fairbanks, Buffalo factory etc.)

Cheers,
KL
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66misos
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« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2015, 01:30:08 PM »

Hi,
yes, there is no reason to expect blue discs on Cobras produced after July/August 1943, when new USAF marking was introduced. I agree, that original USAF marking was in vast majority repainted still by Americans and replaced by "transit" marking.
Also here at Marinskij's Cobra is nicely visible late-war USAF marking (disc plus side bars) repainted most probably OD by Americans:


However, IMHO, earlier Cobras are different story. I think this is original blue disc (it is too dark/contrast for OD and to nice/regular for Russian repainting)

Although I think blue discs were not so often in the reality like painted on profiles.

regards,
   66misos
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66misos
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« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2015, 03:05:33 PM »

Hi,
here are another two Cobras from 129 giap:

1.) board number "7", N.I. Glotov:

Interesting detail - a little white plane painted aside the victory starlets. However, it is not confirmed (although quite possible) that it is the same Glotov's Cobra on the both images:


2.) board number "31", pilot unknown:




Regards,
   66misos
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AC26
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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2015, 06:50:05 PM »

Hi Misos and KL,

Thank you for your replies.
I agree with the late Cobras. I think that if Bell factory was in time, they painted white discs with red stars. But if they were in some stress or there was presure to ship more Cobras, they took Cobras with already painted USAF insignias and still in USA (in the factory?) they repainted it with original OD and NG to Bell export standards, e.g. no insignias on the upperwings and two star on the underwings:
Hyryl? plane has red stars on both wings on both sides. It is quite nonstandard then.


I have seen the Hyryl? (earlier Tikkakoski) Airacobra also before the restoration and for my eyes it looks like the US bars were overpainted with US paints in the States and the white discs with Soviet greens on the upper surfaces and fuselage sides. Upper surfaces overpainting colour has always looked a bit strange for me. Myself I don't buy the US insignia Blue on these discs.

Thanks AaCee, what you are saying about the Hyryl? Airacobra confirms our conslusion about the 1944 "transit markings".  I also doubt that earlier, 1943 VVS Airacobras had blue disks - those blue disks were overpainted  in OD/NG by the Americans (in Abadan, Great Falls, Fairbanks, Buffalo factory etc.)
I have no clue which way it was delivered.

I wrote about odd upper surface overpainting colour. My mistake: should be lower surfaces overpainting. It is strange green colour.

Cheers,

AaCee
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2015, 10:08:21 PM »

Hi,
Hyryl? plane has red stars on both wings on both sides. It is quite nonstandard then...



Yes, it was non-standard, but it was not so rare:




...lower surfaces overpainting. It is strange green colour.

Regarding Cobra "26" in Finland:
http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1515.msg12233#msg12233


Wings of the plane ("26") are from 44-3225 which was #25...
...the disks under a stars, are painted on Finnish enamels during the restoration. Even if they look like original...
Red star sometime with white disc, sometime without Huh What was original war-time version?
Plus I would not be surprised if color of new paints used for repainting was quite similar to original OD/NG but they differently degraded over a long time period and they look so strange now.


Here is an example when original older USAF marging (blue disc without side bars) was repainted by Soviets - blue disc repainted green (AMT-4/4BO) and white star repainted red. Bell "transport marking" was excluded:


regards,
   66misos
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