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Author Topic: Kozhevnikov's P-39  (Read 21154 times)
KL
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« Reply #90 on: March 02, 2016, 10:36:07 PM »

It's going to be grayish blue, somewhat lighter than AMT-11, I guess...

It is clear that camouflage wasn't a concern when planes were repainted in 22 giad in 1945-46, after WWII.  It is more likely that the planes were painted with whatever paint was available.  I have never supported this approach, but in this case it seems to be the only explanation.  We have photos of 3 planes photographed at same airfield, all 3 were overhauled/repainted shortly after the war (second half of 1945 or 1946) and all 3 are in nonstandard schemes:













Last Airacobra, No "100" isn't light blue-gray AGT-16 (as I guessed before).  213 giap was also disbanded in March 1947, before production of AGT-16 started .

HTH,
KL
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 10:42:45 PM by KL » Logged
66misos
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« Reply #91 on: March 03, 2016, 06:51:45 AM »

Hi,
discussion about P-39 "100" and "44" was already at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1714.msg17516#msg17516
Here is interesting note:
"...regimental colors - red/129 giap, blue/212 giap and white/213 giap.
...by some accounts, 212 giap had yellow spinners and secondly, in the (212) regiment divisional stripe on the tail was sometimes painted in regimental color, on many photos it is clearly not white. The were not seen such deviations in 129 and 213 giap."


EDIT:
I have a fragment of the photo showing number "100", most probably belonging to P-39 "black 100" from 213 giap:

There is visible dark outline around digits. I do not know whether outline is caused only by JPG compression fragments or it is real black outline around let's say red digits. There are known photos where red looks almost black.

Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 11:10:23 AM by 66misos » Logged

66misos
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« Reply #92 on: March 03, 2016, 11:57:47 AM »

Hi,
following photos I have found in VIF archive.

Hard to say if this is the same Oborin's plane, numbers 5 seem to have slightly different fonts:


Probably 2015 iad:


Dark disc under the red star:


Dark spinner, "10" has the same font as "5":


Regards,
  66misos


EDIT:


Probably 104 giap:
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 05:58:54 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #93 on: March 03, 2016, 04:38:38 PM »

Hi Misos,
about the outline of n.100, I think it is real. Should it be a JPG artifact, there should be a similar light outline in the light grey area, but it's not visible on this photo.
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #94 on: March 03, 2016, 06:59:52 PM »

Hi Misos,

any idea about this square on the tail?
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #95 on: March 03, 2016, 07:42:48 PM »


I have a fragment of the photo showing number "100", most probably belonging to P-39 "black 100" from 213 giap:


There is visible dark outline around digits. I do not know whether outline is caused only by JPG compression fragments or it is real black outline around let's say red digits. There are known photos where red looks almost black.

That is definitively outline...

It looks that Airacobra No "100" was flown by P.I. Chepinoga in late 1944 and early 1945, before he left 213 giap in April 1945. At that time "100" looked something like this:



M. Bykov, author of the profile writes in comment:

Истребитель Bell P-39Q Airacobra из состава 508 иап/213 гиап, на котором в конце 1944 - начале 1945 гг. летал майор П.И.Чепинога.
Источник: фото (Squadron-Signal и др. издания), воспоминания ветеранов


from  http://aviahobby.ru/publ/sovaces/color/M_Z/Chepinoga.html

Light gray or light blue Airacobra No "100" is probably the same plane that is on the widely publicized photo



HTH,
KL
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 07:45:02 PM by KL » Logged
66misos
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« Reply #96 on: March 03, 2016, 10:07:52 PM »

....any idea about this square on the tail?

Hi Massimo,
It looks like repainted RAF tricolora, but AFAIK all British Airacobras had 20mm long-barel cannon in propeller spinner. And this Cobra has 30mm cannon in the tubulsr cover, so it hss to be former US plane. Plus according to some opinions at VIF there is serial number on the tail (I do not see it), e.g. feature of US Cobras.
But for sure it is not Oborin's Cobra "5" - "5" here has different font and position.
Regards,
     66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #97 on: March 04, 2016, 07:05:21 AM »

Hi Misos,
maybe it had the tail of another plane?
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #98 on: March 06, 2016, 08:59:44 AM »

Hi,
here are (I hope) the final versions of P-39 Airacobras from 212 giap:


and one updated Cobra from 213 giap:


Regarding "44" and "100" - there are several options for camouflage/protecting color and without new substantial info no final resolution. So I decided to keep original colors discussed priviously. I changed only color of the board number and divisional marking.
Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 09:10:41 AM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #99 on: March 06, 2016, 10:24:09 AM »

Hi Misos,
looks fine. I wait for the updates to your page on P-39s.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #100 on: March 06, 2016, 06:04:06 PM »

Hi Misos,

Airacobras No "100" and "44" are for all purposes the same colour.
Both 212 giap and 213 giap were based at the same airfield between Aug 1945 and Mar 1947 (Stockerau, Austria), so planes share common features - both are painted in non-standard one colour scheme, both have outlined numbers...

IMHO, "100" looks more convincing when compared with the photo.  "44" should be lighter than on your profile.  Also, on photos, there is simply no such contrast between the nose and the rest of the plane.  If you change "44" to same colour as "100" you'll be fine, but don't call the colour AGT-16, because AGT-16 wasn't available at that time.

HTH,
KL 
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66misos
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« Reply #101 on: March 07, 2016, 06:11:06 AM »

Hi KL,
so here is bluegrey alternavive of P-39 "yellow 44":



I have to say it does not look bad Wink
Regards,
    66misos
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KL
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« Reply #102 on: March 07, 2016, 09:57:10 PM »

Hi Misos,
Yes, "44" looks good, you may consider it done.

If you want to make page about 212 giap Airacobras really outstanding (definitive as much at possible with the currently available info) I have 2 more suggestions  Undecided

1.-  For those Airacobras with unknown serial number, instead of an empty yellow rectangle, use beginning of the serial which relates to the P-39Q sub-type and then for the rest of the number use Huh?
- No "5" should be a P-39Q-10 from the same batch as No "19" so its serial should be 22?Huh
- No "34" and No "56" are both P-39Q-15 and their serials should be 42?Huh

2.-  Comment (caption) should have as much information as possible: who, when, where, etc.  For No "44" it could be something like"

P-39Q-10, 212 giap, photographed after the war, sometime between summer 1945 and winter 1946/47 when regiment was based at the Stockerau airfield in Austria.
Aircraft is in non-standard one-coluor light blue-gray scheme


For Airacobras No "47" and "34" check my previous posts - I have posted exact airfields where photos where taken.  For both planes date when photos were taken can be narrowed down to 2 weeks.  This allows to connect planes to a specific operation and battlefield.

HTH,
KL
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66misos
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« Reply #103 on: March 07, 2016, 10:54:11 PM »

Hi KL,
thank you. in case when serial number is not known I rather make there rectangle. Proposed "generic" s/n look too much like real ones. I will put them with the note to the caption and with "x" instead of "0".
I am going to summarize info and make articles for mig3 pages.
Thanks all for help.
Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 09:17:09 AM by 66misos » Logged

66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #104 on: December 26, 2016, 06:50:16 PM »

Hi,
I just found Kozhevnikov's Cobra skin at warthunder http://live.warthunder.com/post/493534/en/



Massimo, seems tant sovietwarplanes.com becomes quite popular :-)
I nice to see results of our discussions in 3D.
Regards,
  66misos
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