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Author Topic: Mijelson E-23 colour interpretation  (Read 6438 times)
KL
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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2016, 08:05:58 AM »


Sorry to disappoint you, but the incompetence of the staff technical museums in Russia, reaching a legendary proportions. The TsKB-15 paint gives the origin of the nearest building store. Soviet aircraft paints usually have shades are not comparable with the modern palette.

Even on the car can be seen with the naked eye that it repainted.

Hi Dmitriy,
it's gross negligence and it's reaching tragic proportions...  It's not only museum technical staff.  Historic airplanes have been "restored" by volunteer groups, by aviation industry or overhaul depots and the result is always the same: valuable historic material has been destroyed.

Unique Yak-1 preserved in Saratov regional museum was restored in 2013 by 356-ом авиационном ремонтном заводе в Энгельсе (356th Overhaul Depot in Engels)

Before restauration in black-green camouflage


After the restoration in green-brown camo


Original presentation logo:


Presentation logo before restauration


and after the restoration


All original fabric has been replaced, cockpit canopy shape has been altered, under-wing metal panels have been replaced and riveted to the wing etc...   Sad 

regards,
KL 
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2016, 05:30:55 PM »

Hi Dmitriy,
you mean that you have compared the colors of the vehicles to Akan paints AMT-7, 1 and 12, and are identical?
Another thing: for what you know, is  the lighter color of the veicles always the same light brown, or there are vehicles with light beige or light green? Some firms as MIG and AK-Interactive offer a wide palette of modern Russian colors, the main variation seems to be the light shade.
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2016, 05:36:26 PM »

Hi Javier,

Quote
Yes, I just checked my tin cans and H-15 should do the trick. I may add a tiny drop of grey or white to light it up a bit for scale effect, but from the pictures it looks plain dark and glossy. Gotta finish my Yak-9 first, but U-2s are so easy to build and enjoyable Grin

Would love to post the VVS models built but lost most of the collection in a fire in 2012. I'm slowly bringing myself back into modeling and CCCP C138 is the first soviet plane I've finished in eight years. The old KP kit, but still worthwhile. I have to take better pictures of it.

thank you for showing the U-2. I hope to see better images of it when possible.
Too bad for the loss of your collection. But, I fear that it wasn't the worst damage made by the fire.

Regards
Massimo
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JP
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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2016, 08:49:04 PM »


Sorry to disappoint you, but the incompetence of the staff technical museums in Russia, reaching a legendary proportions. The TsKB-15 paint gives the origin of the nearest building store. Soviet aircraft paints usually have shades are not comparable with the modern palette.

Even on the car can be seen with the naked eye that it repainted.

Hi Dmitriy,
it's gross negligence and it's reaching tragic proportions...  It's not only museum technical staff.  Historic airplanes have been "restored" by volunteer groups, by aviation industry or overhaul depots and the result is always the same: valuable historic material has been destroyed.

Unique Yak-1 preserved in Saratov regional museum was restored in 2013 by 356-ом авиационном ремонтном заводе в Энгельсе (356th Overhaul Depot in Engels)

Before restauration in black-green camouflage


After the restoration in green-brown camo


Original presentation logo:


Presentation logo before restauration


and after the restoration


All original fabric has been replaced, cockpit canopy shape has been altered, under-wing metal panels have been replaced and riveted to the wing etc...   Sad 

regards,
KL 

Looks like they were using that incredible (literally) reference penned by that guy with the personality disorder.
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KL
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2016, 08:07:27 AM »

Hi Havier,

Humbrol H15 midnight blue looks OK for U-2 E-23 model:



... I just checked my tin cans and H-15 should do the trick. I may add a tiny drop of grey or white to light it up a bit for scale effect, but from the pictures it looks plain dark and glossy.


Yes, it looks very dark and glossy; no need for white.
H15 seems as a good choice becouse it is glossy:





compare photos above with E-23 photo



E-23 was extremely glossy.  Smiley


The lower wing reflection looks like the silver/grey U-2 in the back, race number 44. I'm not sure if E-23 carried red stars on the wings, it was a civilian aircraft after all.

Profile in Ivanov's book clearly has red stars on lover wings - check my previous post...  It isn't clear weather this plane was a "civilian" or "military". E-23 on rudder looks as a type name not a registration.  If "civilian", plane would have SSSR-E23 on its fuselage.  Huh

Regards,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2016, 08:53:11 AM »

Hi,
Quote
Looks like they were using that incredible (literally) reference penned by that guy with the personality disorder.
it seems a lot to his drawings with AII green/AII dark green/AII light blue. Only, the AII green is not so lime.
Regards
Massimo
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Javier Planells
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« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2016, 12:20:03 AM »

Hi Havier,

Humbrol H15 midnight blue looks OK for U-2 E-23 model:



... I just checked my tin cans and H-15 should do the trick. I may add a tiny drop of grey or white to light it up a bit for scale effect, but from the pictures it looks plain dark and glossy.


Yes, it looks very dark and glossy; no need for white.
H15 seems as a good choice becouse it is glossy:





compare photos above with E-23 photo



E-23 was extremely glossy.  Smiley


The lower wing reflection looks like the silver/grey U-2 in the back, race number 44. I'm not sure if E-23 carried red stars on the wings, it was a civilian aircraft after all.

Profile in Ivanov's book clearly has red stars on lover wings - check my previous post...  It isn't clear weather this plane was a "civilian" or "military". E-23 on rudder looks as a type name not a registration.  If "civilian", plane would have SSSR-E23 on its fuselage.  Huh

Regards,
KL


Thank you KL and Massimo for your help on this scheme. Yes, I agree with you, Konstantin. Chkalov's U-2 and Bashneft's SPL had special civilian registration, after all. I wonder if the "E-23" marking was painted on the other side of the rudder or just on the left side. For example, South Front decal sheet states that U-2 CCCP-N740 rudder badge was painted on one side only. Is that possible?
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Playing the mandolin is like tossing darts at people: when you do they move their feet rather quick!
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2016, 06:39:49 AM »

Hi Javier,
probably none knows it for sure. Probably they decided so because the emblem, as it is, can't fit on the other side of the rudder without modifications.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2016, 03:38:31 AM »

...I wonder if the "E-23" marking was painted on the other side of the rudder or just on the left side.  For example, South Front decal sheet states that U-2 CCCP-N740 rudder badge was painted on one side only.

The plane must have had E-23 markings on both sides of the rudder!!!  this wasn't a bedge - it was type designation...

E-23 was a purely experimental plane.  It wasn't registered as a civilian plane and it wasn't a military plane.  In 1930-es there was a special category of planes funded by the Ministry of Industry (this ministry included all aviation and armament production).  These planes usually had "IE" on their tailfins or rudders:







HTH,

kl
 
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Javier Planells
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« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2016, 01:00:39 AM »

Hi KL,

Yes, I agree with you. I roughly cut out the shape of the "E-23" type designation and inverted the profile. The race marking "21" was reversed on the modified profile. The type designation actually fits onto the rudder. Didn't touch the exhaust arrangement for lack of time.



All the best,

Javier
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Playing the mandolin is like tossing darts at people: when you do they move their feet rather quick!
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2016, 06:37:04 AM »

Hi Javier,
this reconstructions looks likely.  On the other side there was an elegant correlation between the curve of the E and the profile of the rudder that is lost on this side, but it is very likely that the emblem was on both sides.
On the photo, I think to seee that the thickness was painted with two different shades of light color, I suppose that they are a light yellow and a dark yellow (or greys, who knows).  It is particularly visible where the inner side of the E has a corner, over the 2.
Regards
Massimo
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Psy06
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« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2016, 10:18:43 AM »

Hi Dmitriy,
you mean that you have compared the colors of the vehicles to Akan paints AMT-7, 1 and 12, and are identical?
Another thing: for what you know, is  the lighter color of the veicles always the same light brown, or there are vehicles with light beige or light green? Some firms as MIG and AK-Interactive offer a wide palette of modern Russian colors, the main variation seems to be the light shade.
Regards
Massimo

No its is original factory paints as is, AKAN is just adapted palette for modelling use, not actual colors. Variations of colors by modellers firms just his own interpretation. No one use original industrial RF military  catalogue for corect paints. AKAN used this catalogue for some paint study but not for direct reproduction actual colors.

This is the bottom line: Mr. Akanihin discovered that Soviet WW2 colors are present in the modern RF industrial military paint catalogue, and I found that ww2 colors not only present there but also used in real life Smiley
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 10:38:44 AM by Psy06 » Logged
Psy06
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« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2016, 10:52:23 AM »

Unique Yak-1 preserved in Saratov regional museum was restored in 2013 by 356-ом авиационном ремонтном заводе в Энгельсе (356th Overhaul Depot in Engels)

Saratov is a song. By the way, the Saratov  government demanded to give them famous Yak-3 returned from the United States, just imagine what they would do with him. But fortunately the Yak-3 was got to Zadorozhny' Museum, is the only one in Russia private technical museum where exhibits cherish.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 11:01:16 AM by Psy06 » Logged
KL
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« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2016, 03:11:33 AM »

Hi Javier,
more details that may help to understand what was E-23 status (an experimental plane, not registered as a civilian plane and not a military plane either...).

Registrations SSSR-E## were reserved for the planes operated by the NII GVF - Civil Aviation Research Institute. Registration SSSR-E23 was assigned to  a Fokker C.IV in 1932.  No photos of that particular plane, this is a military Fokker C.IV



Some other NII GVF planes:










U-2 E-23 was like this R-5 tested at TsAGI in 1935. The plane was owned by the Ministry of Industry.



HTH,
KL
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 03:30:11 AM by KL » Logged
KL
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« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2016, 05:49:01 AM »

some new information from this book


Lennart Andersson Red Stars 6 - Aeroflot origins  - an excellent book, a must have for those interested in Soviet civil aviation!!!






E-23 was entered in civil aviation registry as СССР-И125 (SSSR-I125) on September 1st, 1935, one day before the beginning of the "1935 Light aircraft competition".

Photo in Andersson's book shows E-23 with both the competition start number (white 21) and the civil registration (SSSR-I125), ie as it appeared at the beginning of the competition on September 2nd, 1935.

HTH,
KL
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